Large Scale Central

Help me understand the electronics, sound

I agree, soundboards are oddly priced. The Small scale card is quite good but limited. The QSI board does ten times more(it’s also a DCC decoder) for $135. QSI sound is excellent but to get the most out of it you need either DCC or the “quantum engineer” they sell, which triggers the sounds on track power. Phoenix sound quality is excellent and you can trigger a whole range of sounds, but wiring them up can be a pain.

Getting sounds, as Tom says, is the hard part. If you want it to sound good, and not irritating, you need to get more than one sound–you need to get the sounds under different conditions, and you need to seamlessly blend them.

for example with Small scale, the chuff gets faster as the loco speeds up, but it doesn’t sound much different. It’s the same “chuff” sped up. With QSI, the chuff sounds changes as the engine gets under load–faster and slower, but also it changes from loud and labored to quiet and gliding, and it gets a different timbre. It makes the sound much more realistic. To do that, QSI had to record locos under a wide range of conditions and speeds, or else find a way to fake it, which would take a lot of work.

It’s odd to me that a Phoenix card costs so much more than a QSI. The Phoenix sounds are excellent but so are QSI’s and the QSI is also a motor control board that syncs sound to motor load.

MRC makes a sound card for around 50 bucks I think. Have never seen or heard one though

Has anyone ever been able to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track?

Likewise, how do you trigger them with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

If so how is it done?

TonyWalsham said:
Has anyone ever been able to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track?

Likewise, how do you trigger them with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

If so how is it done?


Good Question Tony!

I’ve got 4 loco’s that would love a QSI, and could purchase them for the price of 2 Phoenix boards…

Great question Tony and I don’t know the answer. QSI’s documentation is less than clear.

This link

http://www.qsisolutions.com/pdf/q1a_steam_v411_man.pdf

describes what you can do under analog DC; it’s possible to blow the whistle and ring the bell and more

Mike.

To the best of my knowledge there is nothing in those QSI information pages that explains how to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track.
Neither does it explain how to do the same with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

BTW.
It is not a good idea to power the QSI sound systems with pwm output voltage controllers of any sort for the same reasons it is not a good idea to that with any other DCC decoders.

C. Nelson said:
TonyWalsham said:
Has anyone ever been able to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track?

Likewise, how do you trigger them with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

If so how is it done?


Good Question Tony!

I’ve got 4 loco’s that would love a QSI, and could purchase them for the price of 2 Phoenix boards…


What are you waiting for Mr. Nelson??? jump into QSI/G-wire I did and have been very satisfied every since doing so over a year ago. I have 3 engines equipped that way. Two Aristo Mallets, and a Dash 9 I do have another dash 9 with Phoenix sound, and OEM Airwire receiver, and I am considering selling it off as I like the QSI\G-wire better. The Only thing that would make me wait is to see what comes about with this new “Procab” being advertised in Garden Railways. Guess they only have a prototype one on it and nothing to sell yet but has been advertised in two issues of it already. Kind of like that “Revolutionary thingy” too but I’m NOT interested in that at all. Seems to me it hasn’t even come out yet and it is to me anyway already been outdone so to speak with newer more advanced technology already!!! I have two of theyre old systems and use when I run track power or other engines not equipped with QSI/gwire. The Regal

Tom Ruby said:
Like my Small Scale board a lot. $90 with the 1w amplifier. I use the Huckleberry sound too. The board doesn't have many features, but it's always making sounds appropriate to what I'm doing, whether sitting idle, moving slow, switching, on the main line... The sounds have lots of character.
And what more do most of us actually want?

I’ve just emailed them with a wants list. To do most of my locos with Phoenix sound would cost me almost $8k. I’m looking to replace my now-defunct Sierra sound systems without making me into a pauper. These days, just filling up can do that pretty easily…

tac
www.ovgrs.org

TonyWalsham said:
Mike.

To the best of my knowledge there is nothing in those QSI information pages that explains how to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track.
Neither does it explain how to do the same with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

BTW.
It is not a good idea to power the QSI sound systems with pwm output voltage controllers of any sort for the same reasons it is not a good idea to that with any other DCC decoders.


I agree–there is nothing very useful there–as I said, they are less than transparent in the instructions, Greg Elmassian may know.

Mike,
I do know what the answers are.
What I was trying to do was get potential users of QSI to investigate whether or not the QSI system will actually do what they want it to do.

If there is any question still, there is no electrical inputs to trigger sounds on a QSI, the only way is DCC commands, or by sequences of polarity reversals of the track power on DC… (This is how the Quantum Engineer does it on DC).

I’ve suggested to Tony Parisi (QSI solutions) to put trigger inputs on them, because he would be able to get some more of the market, but really, who is his market? Very few systems run with magnets anymore… yes I know people want them, but the majority of the market is elsewhere… otherwise the Sierra would still be a viable product, and there would be more competition… everything out there is old with the exception of the updated phoenix boards.

Regards, Greg

Greg. I beg to differ.
I think the majority of regular DC layouts that run sound equipped locos still use, and want, track magnets to trigger the sound.

Sure it is old fashioned, but that is what most have and they don’t really want to change.

The main problem with marketting Sierra was that dealers had to stock multiple systems to cover even the basics. Whereas with Phoenix, they only need to stock one piece of hardware and program it to suit the customer. Even though it is more expensive than Sierra was.

I did run with track magnets for a while but it got annoying VERY quickly. Same thing every time. Del Tapparo makes a randomizer that varies the results when you pass over the magnet, sometimes the bell, sometimes the horn, sometimes nothing, but that got old quickly too.

I’m sure there are a lot of people still using them, and they are probably great for an open house or automated operation.

I agree–if QSI added input triggers they would grab a bigger share of the market. I would still say that Pheonix has prettier sounds but that in terms of operational variety and realism, QSI is worlds better

Greg Elmassian said:
Very few systems run with magnets anymore... yes I know people want them, but the majority of the market is elsewhere...

Regards, Greg


Greg, I would also beg to differ with you. I don’t have any statistics, but I would guess that many, if not most, railroads around here use track magnets.

I would agree that repetitive whistle events, especially on a small layout, can get old in a hurry. That is why I have included a randomized whistle event in my new “Enhanced RailBoss R/C”. You can program it to sound the whistle/horn 0%,25%,50%,75%, or 100% of the time it crosses a track magnet. The same can be done with station stops. It makes for very interesting and unpredictable operation. You can also trigger sounds from the transmitter at any time you like.

See what I mean, so much conflicting information. Honestly, thanks for the input. I suppose I either have to spend the bucks, or wait until one of you buy the high priced, latest-and-greatest and list your old stuff for sale. :wink:

David Hill said:
See what I mean, so much conflicting information. Honestly, thanks for the input. I suppose I either have to spend the bucks, or wait until one of you buy the high priced, latest-and-greatest and list your old stuff for sale. ;)
Now there's a "Revolutionary Ider" No i din't spell it wrong just trying to type like Paul Tuttle Sr. speaks!! LOL Yeah wait for on Ebay or elsewhere!!! The Regal

Sorry guys, I did not do a good job of writing…and did not clearly communicate what I wanted to convey:

When I say “the market” I mean new sales and the future.

I believe the future will not be magnets and reed switches. With the length of the development cycle, I believe all manufacturers are looking at the future and pretty much ignoring the past and to a certain extent the present.

My opinion… let’s see what happens in a year, since nothing is happening now, that’s for sure.

Regards, Greg

I spent a weekend with my Phoenix PB9. Very nice. Left to it’s own it kept the loco making fine sounds. I can also press “D” and get 15 rings from the bell, or E and get the Woooooo Wooooo Wo Wooooooooooooo pattern for a crossing.

Only thing I’d change is I’d like it to make the idle sounds longer before turning off. I think it’s programmable, but I didn’t spend another 90 on the programming cable. I run it on the big train battery instead of the cute little NiMH pack, which means I need to find a cool use for this little battery, and there’s enough mAH to run the board for hours.

Tom, Why do your idle sounds turn off? I use P-5’s and my idles sounds stay on all day unless I turn it off.

Hmm. I’ll have to look in the manual again.

Don’t find any mention of the idle sounds. Thought I read somewhere…

Terry A de C Foley said:
I've just emailed them with a wants list. To do most of my locos with Phoenix sound would cost me almost $8k. I'm looking to replace my now-defunct Sierra sound systems without making me into a pauper. These days, just filling up can do that pretty easily....

tac
www.ovgrs.org


Well, what pure waste of time and electrons THAT little exercise was.

These days, you’d think that a thousand dollar sale might attract some attention, but sadly it was not the case.

Next…

tac
www.ovgrs.org