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  • Topic: 7.5 inch Gauge Number 5 Turnout Build

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    • April 3, 2018 1:47 PM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      Sean McGillicuddy said:

      Gary this looks great.

      Can you remind us How old are you again ?????

      Thanks for the comment.

      A "young" 74. Pretty much a prerequisite for this size railroading :)! Very happy I'm still able to do it. My steaming Buddy is 85 and just finishing and running his new 3-3/4 inch scale Porter! I'm the youngster in THIS crowd.

    • April 8, 2018 4:13 PM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      I have been taking a "break" from the build of my 7-1/2 inch gauge #5 turnout.....had to slow down here waiting for the frog and steel points to be delivered. I received an email from my vendor in Minden, NV that the frog and points have been sent and will actually be "drop-shipped" at my home here in Burbank. Good news :).

      In the meantime, I setup the two guardrails in my millling machine and removed the INSIDE flange from the rail. This milled edge now sits up against the inside edge of the main stock rails, BOTH straight and curved. The aluminum alloy material in this rail machines very nicely :) even in a T6 condition. 6061 AL.

       

      Removing the inside flange from the straight guardrail. The print calls for the flange to be removed down to the side of the inside rail head.

       

      Preliminary fit and clearance check with a set of 7-1/2 inch gauge Bettendorf trucks.

       

      I;m going to cut the closure rails today and start to lay out those for milling. Onward..........

    • April 8, 2018 10:22 PM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      Formed the two closure rails this afternoon. They are a little longer now to check the fit when the frog and points arrive. It's actually starting to look like a switch.

       

      This is where the 24 inch long steel points will be placed.....end of the closure rails down to the "black mark" on the rail rail head (barely visible).

       

      This build is ghoing pretty well so far. Considering I have NEVER built my own turnouts before this in ANY scale, this company has a great product at an affordable price. I DO need another siding in the front of the house to park a second engine and train on, so there is most likely another turnout to be made in the very near future :).

      This post was edited by Gary Armitstead at April 8, 2018 10:29 PM EDT
    • April 8, 2018 10:53 PM EDT
      • Southern Oregon
         
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      Gary,

      How are the points going to pivot or hinge at the closure rails?

    • April 8, 2018 11:15 PM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      Rick Marty said:

      Gary,

      How are the points going to pivot or hinge at the closure rails?

       

      That's a good question Marty :)........According to the CAD prints, the points come machined and "hard face weld". There is a small tab the extends from the 1 inch channel iron that is about 3/4 inch long and roughly 1/2 inch tall. There is a .200 diameter hole drilled in this tab and then I match drill another .200 diameter hole in the web area of the aluminum rail. These two items are bolted together in a "loose fashion" so they can "pivot", but not move up or down. On a switch this large, 24 inch long points only pivot about 4 to 5 degrees. Many turnouts made in this scale actually have the points and the closure rails as one piece....they actually bend. That's the way the 1:1 works.

      Because I'm not sure about going any further until I have the frog and points, I'll probably wait so that everything matches up. Safe than sorry. I have plenty of rail stock if I screw up. The rail is fairly inexpensive art $1.35 per ft.

      This has been fun so far. Marty Cozad was the one that urged me to do it myself and I'm glad I did :).

       

    • April 9, 2018 1:55 AM EDT

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      I was looking on a small screen and could not figure out how you remove a flange, since flanges are only on wheels... I see you removed the foot of the rail on the side nearest the stock rail, pretty SOP for making guardrails from rail... if you don't do this you can't get the right flangeway width.

       

      Looking forwards to seeing the completion of your switch.

       

      Greg

      ____________________________________

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    • April 9, 2018 7:20 AM EDT
      • Berkshire, Ma.
         
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      Gary you used the right word.  

      Flange - Wikipedia

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange
       
      flange is an external or internal ridge, or rim (lip), for strength, as the flange of an iron beam such as an I-beam or a T-beam; or for attachment to another object, as the flange on the end of a pipe, steam cylinder, etc., or on the lens mount of a camera; or for a flange of a rail car or tram wheel.
       
      In May 1831, the first 500 rails, each 15 feet (4.6 m) long and weighing 36 pounds per yard (17.9 kg/m), reached Philadelphia and were placed in the track,marking the first use of the flanged T rail. Afterwards, the flanged T rail became employed by all railroads in the United States.

      Rail profile - Wikipedia

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_profile
       
       
      Richard
    • April 9, 2018 10:10 AM EDT

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      Richard, while technically, you can use the word flange for a ridge for strength or attaching point, I found it confusing when applied to the foot of the rail, in fact your wikepedia article shows flange as most people would expect, on the edge of a wheel.

       

      Using a "wide open" interpretation, you could probably try to call the rail head itself a flange (it's wider for strength, which "satisfies" the general definition in wikipedia).

       

      Like I said, flanges in railroads are usually on wheels, or steam pipe fittings, and the rail already has VERY specific terminology, head, web, foot, etc. that makes things CLEARER. I was just indicating that on a small screen the pictures shown, I could not see a flange as I would expect it.

       

       

      Greg

      This post was edited by Greg Elmassian at April 9, 2018 11:27 AM EDT
      ____________________________________

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    • April 9, 2018 11:48 AM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      Ok folks,

      I enjoy the debate, but..........Greg, please take notice of the term "flange" used by the engineer who did the CAD drawings for the company that owns Accutie Rail Systems. This is why I used the word "flange" in my narrative on this post. The Los Angeles Live Steamers use the word "flange" on their "Standards" prints for all the turnouts used on our railroad in Griffith Park, CA (a couple of hundred installed now). These prints were done by a mechanical engineer working in the aerospace industry (also one of the "Old Timers" in the International Brotherhood of Live Steamers AND he was a "stickler" for proper terminology). I DO know that terms used for rail profile are different for just rail for straight and curved TRACK, but use other words for the same area of the rail when using rail for switches. They are considered different appliances on the 1:1 railroads. The British words are completely different as used in their track.

       

      Anyway, I hope the "confusion" is settled :). Sorry for that :).

       

    • April 9, 2018 1:54 PM EDT

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      Got it, so something to learn from REAL engineers I guess! I completely agree that the industry may have their own terminology, just no model train people would get it.

       

      Interesting note, early on, there was indeed "flanged" rail and the wheels did not have flanges themselves.

       

      Any way, it was confusing, and all I was trying to do is suggest a terminology that everyone understands.

       

      sorry for the derailment... next time I'll look on a bigger screen or keep my thoughts to myself.

       

      Greg

      This post was edited by Greg Elmassian at April 9, 2018 2:06 PM EDT
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    • April 9, 2018 2:14 PM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      Greg Elmassian said:

      I completely agree that the industry may have their own terminology, just no model train people would get it.

       

      Any way, it was confusing, and all I was trying to do is suggest a terminology that everyone understands.

       

      Greg

       

      Greg,

      I completely understand what you were saying and I agree. Part of the reason I am posting this particular thread is that some model railroaders MAY NOT understand how the 1:1 railroads made certain devices (like turnouts) and thought this would be a learning experience for those folks. Not chiding you in the least bit :). It's all good. At 74, I'm still learning about railroading and I have been doing this scale since 1956! This build for me has provided a learning experience and just thought I would pass it along. Building track in the ride-on scales is very, very similar to 1:1 (1/8th size in my case). Not really considered "model" railroading, I guess :).

       

    • April 9, 2018 2:22 PM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      Rick Marty said:

      Gary,

      How are the points going to pivot or hinge at the closure rails?

       

      Rick,

      Just to add further on your question......attached below is the partial print for the switch points for this particular turnout. I have "smudged out" some of the dimensions because these prints are propietary.

       

    • April 9, 2018 2:24 PM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      sorry for the derailment... next time I'll look on a bigger screen or keep my thoughts to myself.

       

      Greg

      Don't do that!!! :)

    • April 9, 2018 5:31 PM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      Yes, model railroaders sometimes use different terms then the 1:1 guys use. And, sometimes, model railroaders misuse terms.

      ____________________________________

      Shannon car Shops
      Home of the infamous leg lamp

      I.A.R.R.R. Member #12

      and King Butt Modeler

    • April 9, 2018 6:54 PM EDT
      • Berkshire, Ma.
         
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      Alls good Gary I kind of thought that is were you got it from. But you could have said it was off your little finger and it would have been ok it 's your post.

      Richard 

    • April 9, 2018 7:41 PM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      Richard said:

      Alls good Gary I kind of thought that is were you got it from. But you could have said it was off your little finger and it would have been ok it 's your post.

      Richard 

      Not a problem Richard :). It's common to hear some comments from model railroaders involved in HO, N, S and O gauge about the NMRA talk about the "standards" they follow when building their railroads. The 1:1 railroads definitely have their standards to follow. The scale which I am involved with here (1.5/1.6 inch per ft), definitely has it's standards and they are pretty strict. There are many 100's of thousands of dollars involved in track work for many of these clubs and their layouts. The cost of maintenance of this track work, would make you cringe.

      BUT in LS such as "G", there are very few standards......deep and shallow scale flanges on wheel sets and axles, all manufactured together. Switches given "in radius size", not the frog number. Not even a standard in coupler profile or size. On my 1/8th scale engines and rolling stock, I have couplers made by 5 or 6 different vendors and EVERY one mates with the other!

      Again, I restate I presented this post more as a learning tool about how other scales go about building track work that WORKS all the time. There is a post on LSC now talking about why the trucks on an Aristo diesel keep derailing. Some blame track, others blame the trucks and still others blame the flange depth. When you are dealing with locomotives (diesels that weigh 800-1000 pounds each and steam engines weighing 500-almost 3000 pounds) you don't have the luxury of just using your hands to rerail that locomotive or piece of rolling stock (weighing 100-200 pounds).

      This post was edited by Gary Armitstead at April 10, 2018 2:52 PM EDT
    • April 9, 2018 8:39 PM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      In that scale, you truly need the hand of God to retail (re-rail) a wayward piece of equipment.

      ____________________________________

      Shannon car Shops
      Home of the infamous leg lamp

      I.A.R.R.R. Member #12

      and King Butt Modeler

    • April 10, 2018 8:16 AM EDT
      • Southern Illinois
         
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      David Maynard said:

      In that scale, you truly need the hand of God to retail (re-rail) a wayward piece of equipment.

      In this gauge and scale, leverage tools and physics play a big part of achieving success.  Suspension on equipment and level tracks are very real items.  Good gloves are also a real, necessary item.  Nobody wants to be called "Stubby".

    • April 10, 2018 9:02 AM EDT
      • Missouri, It's like Floodsburg, man
         
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      Gauge and talking derailments bring this to mind. YouTube suggested it yesterday. A friend has been to Train Mountain a few times but I have neither the health nor income to make the trip.

      Tom Watson
      Published on Mar 18, 2018
      The old Train Mountain Safety Video has been replaced by this new version created in 2018 by 7idea Productions. This new 16 minute video is now the version that will be required watching prior to operating at Train Mountain.

      https://youtu.be/Vf5AYenI-l4

       

    • April 10, 2018 2:51 PM EDT
      • Burbank, CA
         
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      Ric Golding said:
      David Maynard said:

      In that scale, you truly need the hand of God to retail (re-rail) a wayward piece of equipment.

      In this gauge and scale, leverage tools and physics play a big part of achieving success.  Suspension on equipment and level tracks are very real items.  Good gloves are also a real, necessary item.  Nobody wants to be called "Stubby".

      Ric and Forrest,

      These are the "tools of the trade" carried on most trains......Re-rail equipment such as this one (leverage tools and physics).

      This is an 800 pound 6-wheel truck diesel in 1.6 inch scale. Re-railed by ONE person with this equipment.

       

      I use the same set for my trains.

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