Large Scale Central

car weight

Hi Guys

I’m starting to run longer trains and having more derail problems. What should the weight be for freight cars be?

Thanks Dave

i took as base the lead-weights, playmobil put under their cars. that was 200 grams for a four-wheeled car. plus the weight of the car itself (400 grams)

so 600 grams, about 1.5 pound, as standard for the middle cars in the train.

those cars nearer the loco i make heavier, those nearer the end lighter.

that helps not only in sharp curves, but at backing up in curves as well.

so a nine car train (as long, as it gets on my railroad) would have the following theoretical weights:

loco(s):1300 gr per axle - cars: 800 - 750 - 700 - 650 - 600 - 550 - 500 - 450 - 400 (all in grams)

in reality, there are some variations, but i try to get near the theoretical numbers.

David,

I think as a baseline all cars should weight the same, have the same type of couplers, same type of wheels. how long a train are you trying to run? the radius of your curves comes into play as well. if you are trying to run a fifty car freight around a five foot radius curve you will get string lining (also known as pulling cars on the ground due to frictional forces). you need to let us know your operating conditions.

AL P.

dave Manning said:

Hi Guys

I’m starting to run longer trains and having more derail problems. What should the weight be for freight cars be?

Thanks Dave

Check the track. It may not be the weight of the cars.

First I set up my cars for 3 point suspension; one truck snugged down so it turns but doesn’t rock and the other truck, just loose enough to rock. The rocking truck is the single point and the more rigid truck carries the weight to the truck side frames for 2 points.

Next metal wheels for better tracking and a lower center of gravity.

Longer trains require; longer grade changes and low to flat curves … broader curves to reduce drag.

While you still can, go to a reload shop and get 20 pounds of small lead bird shot. Get some small (1 1/2" x 3"ish) zip lock bags and add weights to each car, drop on the roof for now, until they all behave. When you stick the weights inside, try to split evenly and mount over the trucks… best mounting method I heard/read was using foil to make a container that suits your needs and white glue the shot solid. Some add some to the trucks under side.

Of course with G $cale, your mileage may vary.

Happy Rails,

John

Doing operations, and pushing back 16-18 freight cars, the car weight can be a problem… Need to see if I can find my old figures… Car weights were discussed here a few years ago… Need to search the old Topics…

Hopefully, below is a link to a discussion a few years ago:

Large Scale Central - Advanced Forum Detail Topic - Car weight; what is a minimum weight for good operation

dave Manning said:

Hi Guys

I’m starting to run longer trains and having more derail problems. What should the weight be for freight cars be?

Thanks Dave

Welcome Dave !

If you do not have them already “metal wheels” are a huge upgrade especially weight wise.

Hi rooster

I am running all metal wheels. Most of my curves are 5’ or longer and flat. It is a 12 car beer train I’m having problems with so I’m pretty sure its the weight of the cars is the issue.

Thanks for your help Dave

OK, I have found that steel wheels help allot in this area. I built some log cars awhile back and they were very light in weight, but when I added the trucks with steel wheels they track fine. One other area is wheel and track gauge. Check the back to back distance with caliber and check the track gauge as well. Check the NMRA web site for the correct measurements. That is generally where the problem is.

Paul

I have found that the metal rim wheels and ccast wheels are the lightest versions.

I use USA Trains wheels as these are solid brass and weigh the most thus lowering the center of gravity.

I have not had to add weight in cars, these wheels worked for me and I back up 10 cars through R1 curves.

I have to agree with Dan. I have used Aristo, USA and Bachmann metal wheels. The old Bachmann metal wheels had a plastic center part, but now they are all metal, except for the small insulating hub. I have some scratch-built cars that are lighter then just about any produced car I have. I used to insist that those lightweights go at the rear of the train. That is, until one day, when I put my handmade wooden boxcar second in a string of cars, just to see how bad it would misbehave. After a couple or hours of running, without any issues, I gave up trying to prove that it could be a problem.

I also try and have my cars set up with 3 point suspensions. I also make sure the trucks and couplers swing freely and easily. But the biggest thing I have found is, most metal wheels are a bit out of gauge right from the package. They aren’t as bad as they used to be, but I still have to adjust some of them when I get them. And out of 5 car’s worth of new Bachmann metal wheels, I had 2 axles where the wheels were wonky. One wheel was not mounted true on the axle. So I had to fix that as well as the gauge.

When considering car weight, be more flexible, and don’t just weight cars separately. Look at a standard minimum weight, and stick to it. This allows you to position cars anywhere in the train. Metal wheels are the first way to increase weight where it is best put on any car.

If you are starting to increase your train length, or are thinking of doing more than just running in circles, then look to body mounting your couplers for better performance.

Of course if you are limited to 2 foot radius curves or switches, then you shouldn’t bother thinking of trains involving many more than 6 cars, without problems…of course maybe you are having rather good fortune.

I resurrected the old thread on this subject, and updated it a bit, but it is up in the General section at the top…looking back, there may be stuff that some newer people could learn from.

For the resurrection impaired folks, you can go here to see what Fred is talking about. (or should that be What The Friar is talking about? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif))

For a resurrection lasting more than 4 hours consult a priest or a Friar or a Padre.

My rolling stock are all on metal wheels and all my curves are 20 ’ diameter . I usually run between 30 to 50 car trains. They also all have Kadee couplers body mounted. That being said I cant have USA articulated well cars in the front or the middle or they will be pulled off the tracks at low speeds , too lite. I found this out the hard way a few times. I suppose I could add some weight in the containers but for me its easier just to tack them to the end of the train.

dave Manning said:

Hi rooster

I am running all metal wheels. Most of my curves are 5’ or longer and flat. It is a 12 car beer train I’m having problems with so I’m pretty sure its the weight of the cars is the issue.

Thanks for your help Dave

Are they stock couplers? Some body mount draft gear boxes interfere with flanges on curves.

Were the metal wheels the same size as the plastic ones? Bigger wheels can cause interference’s too.

John

You can always try the scale weight, unloaded. I find for my long trains I need a bit more than the unloaded weight.

You take the weight of the prototype in pounds, and divide by the cube of the scale.

Works great for me.

Greg