Large Scale Central

Shooting a 9mm carbine in UK - V. odd

What's that, you get to shoot a REAL 9mm Para carbine in yUK?  :shock:

... no, I'm not drunk. Here in yUK this is as near as we can get to the real semi-auto AR lower 9mm Parabellum carbine.......

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I got to shoot this this morning for the first time. The owner told me that they are pretty rare -at a tad over $1700 I have to agree. With its 12" barrel and 24" OAL it conforms to the UK's wacky laws on 'short firearms' - bleeve it or not, it is registered here in yUK as a '9mm rifle'........

Uh, right.

What happens is that the bolt gets blown back, just like a semi-auto on the last shot, and held by the bolt release - that way it's not a semi-auto. Manually [actually, thumb-ually] releasing the bolt allows it to travel forward and pick up another round and chambers it for you to shoot and the whole process starts over. Neat, eh?

We have no such thing a restricted magazines here in UK - if you want, and can actually carry, a fifty-round mag for your 12g Viper, you just go ahead and buy it. Same for this baby here - the biggest mags are my UZI 32-rounders - I didn't hand THEM in back in '97 when my UZI pistol disappeared into the melter. Just in case, y'know?

The lower is a regular AR-lower made by any number of makers who ship to the UK, but the upper is a custom job made right here in yUK - hence the, ahem, somewhat enthusiastic hanger price.

9mm Para from most makers here hovers around $40-45/C on account of its rarity for the civilian shooter, like this is the ONLY gun made to shoot it that the public can have.  So, with a piece like this, it makes reloading a plan.

Best

tac & the boys over here, doing what we can with whatever we can,
tac Foley said:
The lower is a regular AR-lower made by any number of makers who ship to the UK, but the upper is a custom job made right here in yUK - hence the, ahem, somewhat enthusiastic hanger price.
 
Terry,
 
Being the owner of several AR-15's here in Florida, and a Vietnam era vet,  I can tell you that the lower on that gun gun is not a standard AR-15 lower (9mm or otherwise). The bolt stop/release is not in the normal location and what you are using as the bolt release is where the selector lever should be. BTW, how is the safety engaged, since the selector is now the bolt release? Here is a picture of a normal 9mm AR-15 lower......
 

No idea, as the gun is not mine. We have a number of straight-pull makers here in UK who have custom lowers made for them in the USA by various makers - LaRue is one of the suppliers for Mark Bradly guns and his beautiful onderguns.

Next time I see it I’ll have a closer look, 'kay?

tac

Southern Gun Company (SGC) are by many, renowned as the finest custom AR builder in the UK, and their latest offering doesn’t disappoint! Here I present to you the 9mm Lever Release Rifle (nicknamed the “Unicorn” due to the seemingly endless wait for it to be produced, and the belief that its existence was a myth). It’s been a long time coming, but this is the latest innovation in firearm technology, which has been designed to comply with the 1988 Firearms Amendment Act (Self Loading Rifle ban), in a similar way Long Barrelled Revolvers and Long Barrelled Pistols do to the 1997 act. These were initially disliked by the police, but soon became excepted, and are a common sight down the local club and also at major Gallery competitions… This new rifle, I predict will end the same way.

Laid on the bench, the Lever Release looks like a pretty standard AR-15, with a modified 32rd Uzi magazine shoved in. For only £1150, you get a 13.25”, 1 in 16 twist barrel, 9mmx19 chambered AR, with a low profile upper receiver (with integral picatinny rail), charge bar cocking, A2 flash hider, DPMS free float hand guard, Command Arms collapsible stock, one magazine (spares are ~£45 as they have to be machined to fit) and an A2 pistol grip. However the gun starts to get exciting when you look at action, there’s not a locking lug in sight, and an unusual lever on the left hand side where the safety catch should be!

This lever is the key to how the action works. This lever is what stops the rifle being a semi-auto, and hence illegal. The firing sequence is as follows; Use the standard AR T handle charge bar to pull the bolt back (it will automatically lock back), insert a loaded magazine, push down the sprung lever with your thumb (this releases the bolt, which then flies forward, chambering the first round), turn the safety catch to fire as necessary, sight the rifle on the target, and pull the trigger. The round then fires, cycling the bolt back, unloading the chamber, ejecting the empty case, and automatically locks back. To fire the next round push the lever down, releasing the bolt and then pull the trigger again, hence the name, Lever Release Action.

After looking forward to this rifle for countless months, it brought a smile to my face when I shot it for the first time at my local club. The rapid string of gunfire, and clattering of empty brass soon attracted a crowd, interested to see the new rifle. It was simply a dream to shoot! The action unloaded extremely quickly and reliably, and never failed to lock open. The recoil was moderate, as expected, and the whole thing seemed natural to shoot. As you grip the rifle with your finger on the trigger, your thumb sits naturally on the lever, ready to release the bolt. Thus it takes very little co-ordination to achieve a high cyclic rate. Whether you want to use it as a Gallery / Practical Rifle in speed shoots, or shoot precision groups down the range, this rifle is perfect for both.

I tested the rifle with Nato Spec IMI, and Wolf ammo. The IMI cycled 100% reliably for the 100rds I fired, throwing the fired cases out with a lot of force. The steel cases of the wolf decreased the reliability slightly, causing the odd empty case to jam the action, but nothing worth worrying about. The trigger pull is slightly on the heavy side, breaking at about 8lb. With a red dot mounted on the top, both ammunitions easily shot a 1” group at 25m. SGC are renowned for their tight machining tolerances, and for manufacturing precision, accurate rifles, so I expect that this group size would drastically decrease with a scope fitted, however I was unable to test this.

There have been concerns about the legality of this design, however most of these are due to lack of understanding of the mechanism, or false information. I can assure you that this rifle falls 100% within Section 1 of the Firearms Acts. It is a concept, designed and manufactured in the UK, to make the most of what we can still own. Its nice to see this country is still at the cutting edge of firearms manufacturing once again, despite our draconian Gun Laws! It has been shown to Warwickshire Police Firearms Licensing Manager, who is happy with it’s legality. SGC have worked extensively to make sure this is the case. Although the lower receiver looks standard, it is a completely new build, designed from scratch. The release lever operates in a very similar way to a semi-auto sear on a trigger – you push the lever down once, it releases the bolt, and then the mechanism springs back up off the lever, so you cannot hold it down to make the rifle go semi auto. You need to release the lever, to reset the sear. Although customers are warned not to try this, as holding the lever down will void the warranty, and damage the mechanism, costing over £400 for a new one.

To ensure the rifle is not easily convertible to section 5, it will not work with a standard AR-15 lower receiver. The trigger mechanism, hammer, and all other internal parts are all custom built for the purpose, and not interchangeable. Therefore you cannot change the lower receiver, or any other parts to convert the rifle to semi auto. The only downside from this is that you cannot fit an aftermarket trigger. In fact you are discouraged from stripping the lower receiver at all, as this will also void the warranty, and after seeing all the tightly tensioned springs inside, I don’t think I’d want to try! A slightly odd feature due to the redesigned lower parts is that on the safety catch, fire is still ‘up’ but safe is pointing back, traditionally where ‘auto’ would be! Of course AR-15 furniture such as sights, stocks, forends, grips, etc. Fit perfectly on the rifle , as it is still a “Mechano set AR” at heart.

This rifle is a must for any black gun fan, as it is fun, new concept, with the aesthetics and ergonomics of any AR. The price is very good value considering the amount of work that’s gone into it, and best of all it brings a smile to your face when shooting!

ETA - If you would like one of these rifles, order one fast, as the first batch is all pre sold, and the next batch will soon be reserved. You require a variation for “1x 9mm rifle”.

Pics:

(http://i128.photobucket.com/al...ty...os/IMG_0243.jpg)((http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p197/tyga_photos/IMG_0243.jpg))

(http://i128.photobucket.com/al...ty...os/IMG_0256.jpg)((http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p197/tyga_photos/IMG_0256.jpg))

(http://i128.photobucket.com/al...ty...os/IMG_0269.jpg)((http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p197/tyga_photos/IMG_0269.jpg))

(http://i128.photobucket.com/al...ty...os/IMG_0271.jpg)((http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p197/tyga_photos/IMG_0271.jpg))

(http://i128.photobucket.com/al...ty...os/IMG_0273.jpg)((http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p197/tyga_photos/IMG_0273.jpg))

(http://i128.photobucket.com/al...ty...os/IMG_0276.jpg)((http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p197/tyga_photos/IMG_0276.jpg))

(http://i128.photobucket.com/al...ty...os/IMG_0281.jpg)((http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p197/tyga_photos/IMG_0281.jpg))Joe - this here is the skinny on this innovative little gun - remember that here in yUK we have a shooting sport called Gallery Rifle…THIS baby will replace the inderlevers, if I’m any judge…

Terry,

Thanks for the informative write up. That explains it. I knew it couldn’t have been a standard AR-15 lower.

…winking…

An interesting configuration. I’ve shot Ar-15 with .22 LR conversions and I’ve seen 7.62 modifications but never with a 9mm para.

As you may or may not know, this gun was designed for use in the Gallery Rifle/carbine comps that replaced handgun combat-inspired/IPSC-styel shooting that had hitherto been the job of any kind of handgun - revolver or smei-auto.

All modern cartridge-firing handguns were prohibited here on mainland UK back in 97/98, so the sport is now carried out with lever-action rifles/carbine in centre-fire, and the still-allowed semi-autos in .22. The well-known ‘1500 Comp’ is the .22 version, so-called because there are 1500 points up for grabs. Favourite gun there are any of the tricked-out Ruger 10/22 variants we build here in yUK - South Yorkshire Guns are THE mavens here.

This new kid on the block, for not THAT much money - is a shoo-in for this style of competions, as well as the falling pie-plate match with the need to reload at least four times for most underlever guns - this one can shoot the lot with only ONE magazine :slight_smile:

Reloading the 9mm Para is a hoot as well, although, since it was my issue cartridge, and I was a minor unit all by myself, I never had a problem using up my allocation of 27,800 rounds per year. :open_mouth:

To tell the truth I’m VERY tempted to sell a gun I don’t use much to get one…we’ll see.

Best

tac

Real hard to find 9mm or .22 cal ammo here in the US.

Depends where you are. dealers in Eugene/Springfield, OR seems to have plenty to sell.

I’ll be there next week shooting it, and on Saturday, having a cab-ride on the Sumpter Valley RR!!

Whooooooooooooooo-hooooooooooooooo!

tac etc.

I haven’t had a problem getting 9mm around here either.

I know it’s bad in Nebraska, Kansas and Wyoming, from talking to contacts I have there.

OH SCARY !!! That is one of those ICKY black BAD guns that make people do horrible things!!

AND you have a banned equally scary outlawed in some states 30 round magazine on it !!

Watch out the drones might be coming to get you!

Actually that is a pretty sweet looking firearm.

Wish I had a place and the money for ammo to go shooting. It is a FUN sport.

Pretty neat you can get it in .22 Beats paying the high price for the .223.

Plenty of 9mm here in yUK, and no restrictions on magazine size, either. Two very small lights in the near-darkness of AR-look-alike UK.

tac

Ottawa Valley GRS

PS - we even get the sraight-pull version of the LMT-built .308Win ‘sharpshooter’ rifle, in four different calibres. Downside is the $5000 price tag - without ANYTHINH on it…

tac, off shooting with spotters ig and ken the GFT

Try finding any .22 ammo here in “The State of Shock” (Calfabulous)

Last I saw a brick of .22 Rimfire $145.00!!

Ammunition is scarce here too in Eastern Pennsylvania. Supply and demand is setting prices above the normal. I guess that the problem is twofold, 1. as soon as cartridges are put on the shelf, they are snatched-up in a near panic buying for fear of heavy restrictions and 2nd the market manipulation with the federal government buying hundreds of millions of rounds (1.6B @ latest estimate), some with configurations that are not used by any agency and quantities that has been said would supply a full scale war for many years.

According to him, my son’s police department has trouble finding ammunition for training and practice. Even those of us who roll-our-own ammunition are having trouble finding the bullets and primers.