OK, with Mik 2020 behind me, it is time to get on to the next challenge…cane cars to go with the recently refurbished Little Thomas, a long defiunct battery powered LGB m2075, now in service as M&K Sugar Co #7. “Rooster” had sent along some beautiful redwood timbers, spare wheel sets, and hook-and-loop couplers to make a series of cane cars with some detail parts to finish off Little Thomas. This will be a slow build, as I have a number of professional obligations before me, and I am going to prioritize Oldest Daughter’s “shorty rehab” over this project.

I think the most important lesson I learned from the Little Thomas project was to begin with research. My books show that cane cars in Hawaii were universally short, 2 axel contraptions. Most appear to have been of wooden construction, and methods for holding sugar in the car ranged from bowed-out gondolas (sort of like a canoe cut athwartships), bulkheads, sideboards, chains, or simply corner posts. Workers piled the sugar in until literally the trains looked like moving haystacks, so clearly gravity and slow speed played a roll! What seems to be true, though, is that each plantation built its cars to some sort of standard. The pictures show the same basic flat cars being used as the basis for tenders, gondolas, and box cars, among other things. Bad photos of an Ewa Sugar plantation cane car, the last survivor of system of six engines, 705 cars, and nearly 30 miles of permanent track (Source: Bonnel, Hery F.; “Hawaiian Railways of Yesteryear;” The Hawaiian Railway Society, 1997; photos by me.), follow:

Youngest Daughter helped me take measurements; of course, I’ve not the foggiest where they are at! Given this will be build to 1:24-ish PLAYMOBIL scale, the impression of the prototype is more important than the exactness of the dimenions, anyway. I also plan to selectively compress it, if necessary, so that the wheelbase conforms to the LGB “Feldbahn” series. If those operate on LGB R1 curves, then our cane cars should work as well! I am going to steal the three beam construction from this prototype, mounting the couplers to the center beam. The deck and bulkheads (should we use bulkheads) will be - SUPRISE! - craft sticks. Chain will come from the craft shop, should we go this route. I should note that the other guidepost from a basic design point is Eric Schade’s relatively GR series on building tipper cars.

Mounting the wheels remains a cunundrum. I have neither the tools nor talent to make the journal frames in Eric’s article. I was thinking of a simpler solution like these on the MOW cars at the local museum:

This does not appear inconsistent with what I can see of the Waimanalo Sugar Co’s cars (from the internet):

Going this route, the plan is to glue a block of wood to the frame, use a bit of brass tubing as a bushing per Eric’s article, and simulate the spring suspension with a “cover” that could also serve to reinforce the seam between the journals and the frame. If I get ambitious, I may try to bend brass around the block in rough approximation of the MOW car. Waimanalo, incidentally, is the next town over, so taking the guide from the above picture has some “home town” appeal…and avoids making those bulkheads!

The end result of all this “butt modeling” will I hope result in something true to the spirit of Hawaii’s sugar industry: a basic, repeatable, and versatile flat car design that uses the M&K’s available materials and is readily modified to serve any of a number of functions for the M&K Sugar Co. True to the spirit of the Triple O, I also want it to be rugged enough for the crew to use either for “operations” or as a platform for railway equipment of their own designs.

Along the way, I have set myself to following modeling goals, something I have found useful to keep me on track for these projects:

1. Becoming more comfortable working with wood.
2. Going from measurements of the prototype to at least prototype inspired models.
3. Improving painting and weathering techniques.
4. Possibly experimenting with brass.

As ever, the project will adhere to CINCHOUSE guidance that “This cannot be just your hobby,” and I will follow the principle of “All may participate; none must participate.”

I am not sure when I will be able to turn to on building. As I want these cars to be repeatable and standardized, my first priority is to make useable sketches from the still missing measurements. Actually cutting and assembling may be about a month out, I am afraid, but I wanted to at least post my intentions to motivate myself to get going and to invite comments and advice on my rough guide as outlined above.

Thanks as ever!

Eric

Vance Bass of Garden Railways did an article from memory “a cane car for machita” where he made some cane cars for his Accucraft “Ida” live steam loco that look almost identical to the top pictures.

Again from memory he used Hartland Loco Works flat cars as a base.

Link to the magazine https://grw.trains.com/issues/2009/august-2009

I used these as the basis of my Australian sugar cane bins.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/G-Scale-Flat-Car-Suitable-For-SM32-SM45/151723157344

The seller has heaps of things that can be used for scratch building small short wheel base wagons.

modeled mine after the same ones that Eric is only I took the easy way out and used HLW cars and styrene, The cane, after several try’s is raffia straw with acrylic paints of purple, green and yellow okra, chain is open ended and was secured to the car using split pins/cotter pins.

Why not extend the ‘buffer beams’ and drill half deep holes in them for your posts. The buffer is where the link and pin pocket is attached.

(https://noxh1g.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mShYYvy8z-0jIsOC_oPLeig4JjCY6hx1QAXBRD4uGwsFM2sm-PumG6T9vJ7x8Adxe3FJbZS6ipIf3paKQg3HPshKPNt97SXRV2jPhFhznxDP8ktuq5wgXiWXqR8-sXYXK8W_0uHTWbbDxf2jxbwWqPscNq8D2aQjF1azqL7trSlwMj7DaSU8CIAk5OQlGUANo_DJSg7oUisKQtsSr51bOQw?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none)

Tip; masking tape (can move) or a felt tip pen can mark depth of hole on drill. Going through may make a brake as well as a break(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

Have heaps more fun.

oooh I have a few ideas. Some years ago I built a pair of cars using cable anchors to hold the wheels in place. There is a guy on Ebay from Sri Lanka who sells 16mm gauge stuff, resin link/pin couplers and wheel journals that would be perfect for this. The rest can be fabbed from basswood stock.

“pasidump” is the ebay seller, I’ve bought a ton of couplers from him

Experimenting with brass is OK as long as you are not in the military or married. Would also like to see what eldest daughter does with her whipped up custom shorty coach. Will follow this thread but most of all have fun and good luck…(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Eric Mueller said:

…

I also plan to selectively compress it, if necessary, so that the wheelbase conforms to the LGB “Feldbahn” series. If those operate on LGB R1 curves, then our cane cars should work as well!

…

Mounting the wheels remains a cunundrum. I have neither the tools nor talent to make the journal frames in Eric’s article. I was thinking of a simpler solution like these on the MOW cars at the local museum:

…

wheelbase: i used for my scratchbuilt short cars the distance axle to axle as the Stainz has: 80mm. Guaranteed R1 proofed!

Mounting wheels: i just used the same, as we used in real life for some locally built agricultural implements (bush rollers). hardwood blocks bolted to the frame.

you might get the idea if you look here: http://kormsen.info/freightcars/ (scroll down three quarters of the page, till you get to the mobile outhouse)

Here is one suggestion on how to make wheel journals.

http://www.trainweb.org/SaTR/diary/glatest10.htm

Scroll down to Sep 12 2010; I have used this idea and it works well, to bend the styrene I wrapped it around a tin can, secured it with rubber bands and just filled it with boiling water till it softened and bent to the contour, then just let it cool.

To make axle bearing I use eyelets that are made for making belts, they are metal and with some powdered graphite lubricant will last a very long time, when the wear out just put a new one in.

Or you could just buy some of these from pasidump in Sri Lanka.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/G-Scale-Plastic-Coil-Spring-Journals-WITH-RIVETS/152292122672

My experience of working at a sugar cane railway in Australia is that no 2 railways used the same design of cane cars/bins they were all locally made usually by the mill workshops.

A belated thanks to everyone! That “pasidump” site was a great tip! Also, I appreciate GAP’s confirmation based on his experience that each cane railway built to its own design in its own workshop. I have to tinker with my drawing a bit, having found the notes, but I think I can get something up on the forum early next week at the latest.

Have a great weekend!

Eric

I have the LGB 41170 cane cars. Changed plastic wheels to FRR metal rim wheel sets. Not sure of scale but look good with my small LGB engines.

All,

First, again, thanks for all the suggestions. There was much to consider this weekend as I repaired buildings, dickered with some track issues, and kept our kids and host of neighborhood kids alive!

After some careful consideration, I am inching my way forward.

• I wanted to use this project to take on some basic design and scratchbuilding issues, though, so I have no immediate plan to hunt for more. For the same reason, I rejected Bill B.'s suggestion of using the HLW “minis” as a starting point.
• Journals. There were lots of good suggestions. I am intrigued by GAP’s DIY journals, but they may be “details too far” for the moment. The “pasidump” ones are really cool, but:
• can anyone comment on their lifespan in the hands of inexperienced yet enthusiastic crew (and their fat-fingered dad)?
• Would I constantly be re-gluing these to the frame?
• Can they be pinned into the frame?
  Korm had an excellent suggestion, too, and my sketch (see below) was leaning that way, but I am open to suggestions.
• Couplers. I am going to stick to hook-and-loops. I have these in abundance courtesy of some donations from forum members looking to offload their spares. The crew (and aforementioned fat-fingered dad) are used to them, and, if not prototypical, are standard across “our” world. The pin couplers are “correct” for O’ahu, but are “wrong” for the Triple O for now.

A couple of design notes:

• Prototype Size. The prototypes is roughly 12’x6’. The wheels are roughly 4’ in from the end beams. If I am reading my notes right, the load bearing members of the frame are 5"x8".
• Material on hand. My redwood strips are 1/2"x 1/.2", which will make these cars “robust” at 1:24-ish PLAYMOBIL scale, but robust is fine. I’d rather practice stripping wood down to size on another project. Craft sticks I have in abundance, as well as the hook and loop couplers and plastic wheel sets. Plastic wheels work fine on our little railroad.
  Below please find my initial sketch, drawn before I knew about the “pasidump” source:
  
  Clearly, the wheels would look goofy with the axles suspended between 3/4" long lengths of 1/2"x1/2" timbers. That was why I was considering cutting, bending, and bolting brass sheet (available locally) reinforcements, as shown in the sketch. This would mimick the prototype. The downside, of course, would be the need to buy something the cut and punch holes in brass! Neither of which are bad long term investments! Going with the “pasidump” journals or GAP-style homemade ones, the above sketch would need to be tweaked a bit to accommodate the fact these would mount to the outside of the frame. Easy…probably!

Finishing would follow John C.'s suggestion of partially drilling out the corners (How do you drill square holes?) to mount suitable basswood posts from the local craft store to emulate the Waimanalo prototypes. I like the look of the chains on the Ewa Sugar Co.'s surviving car, and adding them will anchor these models, however freelanced, more firmly in place in time. The bulkheads I imagine fashioning to emulate the prototype, with a groove Dremel-ed into the corner posts and craft sticks slotted in between. After that, I hope to use the basic design, as stated, for the starting point of any of a number of projects, as fancy or need takes us.

Professional obligations preclude any real chance of progress in March. If the “pasidump” journals are the answer, I’ll flow the parts to have them on hand when I get out my nemesis…the saw…and start cutting!

Have a great week!

Eric

Eric Mueller said:

All,

First, again, thanks for all the suggestions. There was much to consider this weekend as I repaired buildings, dickered with some track issues, and kept our kids and host of neighborhood kids alive!

After some careful consideration, I am inching my way forward.

• I wanted to use this project to take on some basic design and scratchbuilding issues, though, so I have no immediate plan to hunt for more. For the same reason, I rejected Bill B.'s suggestion of using the HLW “minis” as a starting point.
• Journals. There were lots of good suggestions. I am intrigued by GAP’s DIY journals, but they may be “details too far” for the moment. The “pasidump” ones are really cool, but:
• can anyone comment on their lifespan in the hands of inexperienced yet enthusiastic crew (and their fat-fingered dad)?
• Would I constantly be re-gluing these to the frame?
• Can they be pinned into the frame?
  Korm had an excellent suggestion, too, and my sketch (see below) was leaning that way, but I am open to suggestions.
• Couplers. I am going to stick to hook-and-loops. I have these in abundance courtesy of some donations from forum members looking to offload their spares. The crew (and aforementioned fat-fingered dad) are used to them, and, if not prototypical, are standard across “our” world. The pin couplers are “correct” for O’ahu, but are “wrong” for the Triple O for now.

A couple of design notes:

• Prototype Size. The prototypes is roughly 12’x6’. The wheels are roughly 4’ in from the end beams. If I am reading my notes right, the load bearing members of the frame are 5"x8".
• Material on hand. My redwood strips are 1/2"x 1/.2", which will make these cars “robust” at 1:24-ish PLAYMOBIL scale, but robust is fine. I’d rather practice stripping wood down to size on another project. Craft sticks I have in abundance, as well as the hook and loop couplers and plastic wheel sets. Plastic wheels work fine on our little railroad.
  Below please find my initial sketch, drawn before I knew about the “pasidump” source:
  
  Clearly, the wheels would look goofy with the axles suspended between 3/4" long lengths of 1/2"x1/2" timbers. That was why I was considering cutting, bending, and bolting brass sheet (available locally) reinforcements, as shown in the sketch. This would mimick the prototype. The downside, of course, would be the need to buy something the cut and punch holes in brass! Neither of which are bad long term investments! Going with the “pasidump” journals or GAP-style homemade ones, the above sketch would need to be tweaked a bit to accommodate the fact these would mount to the outside of the frame. Easy…probably!

Finishing would follow John C.'s suggestion of partially drilling out the corners (How do you drill square holes?) to mount suitable basswood posts from the local craft store to emulate the Waimanalo prototypes. I like the look of the chains on the Ewa Sugar Co.'s surviving car, and adding them will anchor these models, however freelanced, more firmly in place in time. The bulkheads I imagine fashioning to emulate the prototype, with a groove Dremel-ed into the corner posts and craft sticks slotted in between. After that, I hope to use the basic design, as stated, for the starting point of any of a number of projects, as fancy or need takes us.

Professional obligations preclude any real chance of progress in March. If the “pasidump” journals are the answer, I’ll flow the parts to have them on hand when I get out my nemesis…the saw…and start cutting!

Have a great week!

Eric

Eric,

This cane “bin” (more modern version of cane cars used with mechanical harvesters since mid 1960’s in Australia) was made in 2014 and has been running ever since on my layout with no issue at all.

It is based on a Pasidump flat car kit with mesh 3.5" floppy disc holders mounted on them

In the pictures you can see I used screws to attach the journals and also what I did to the wheels (pasidump again) to add some extra weight down low.

You could quite easily mount them inside the frame to hide most of the journal mount just file away the excess plastic.

As for the others just leave out the spring detail and just use the angle styrene, to make the journals cut some styrene into squares then glue them to the angle then drill holes for the axles to cover the holes just use a punch and cut some circles and glue over the holes.

If you wanted to use them take the springs out and run with out them as they are cosmetic anyway.

I lubricated the axle s with graphite powder and they are still running smoothly.

Personally I would get some kits and bash the hell out of them, he even has some with stakes. In Australia the cane was loaded across the car centre as it was easier for the cutters to heave the sticks onto the car. The cutters cut the cane then humped it on their shoulders to the car.

The Pasidump journals can be nailed or screwed to the frames, I also used cable clips like these on a couple cars.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-1-4-in-Polyethylene-Data-Cable-Staples-in-Blue-25-Pack-PTM-25/100136181

Eric Mueller said:

OK, with Mik 2020 behind me, it is time to get on to the next challenge…cane cars to go with the recently refurbished Little Thomas, a long defiunct battery powered LGB m2075, now in service as M&K Sugar Co #7. “Rooster” had sent along some beautiful redwood timbers, spare wheel sets, and hook-and-loop couplers to make a series of cane cars with some detail parts to finish off Little Thomas. This will be a slow build, as I have a number of professional obligations before me, and I am going to prioritize Oldest Daughter’s “shorty rehab” over this project.

Eric,

Those (old growth) redwood framing timbers are 5/8" x 1/2" I believe so depending on how “detail oriented” you want to get they may/WILL need shaved down.

Or “YOU COULD” just work with what you have as you and the kids have done many times over?

Gents,

Thanks again for the tips! And, no worries Rooster, this is a go-with-what-we-have project! Shaving the timbers to the “right” size is in excess of the project’s goals. GAP, rail service died here in the 1950-s. Older style cars with chains or slats appear to have been the norm to the end. Loading was also done by hand until after WWII when mechanical grabs began to replace workers and trucks began to replace trains. In one book, in fact, there is a picture of a tracked Caterpillar is seen pulling a string of empties down the track!

I think I am going to have to just cut the timbers for the frame then putter around with card stock and scrap wood to see what looks “right.” Styrene is available locally, so GAP your homemade journals have real appeal. For a number of reasons, ranging from saving on shipping cost to achieving modeling goals, I like to procure what I can from our local community or at least the local “big box store!”

Eric

Eric Mueller said:

Gents,

Thanks again for the tips! And, no worries Rooster, this is a go-with-what-we-have project! Shaving the timbers to the “right” size is in excess of the project’s goals. GAP, rail service died here in the 1950-s. Older style cars with chains or slats appear to have been the norm to the end. Loading was also done by hand until after WWII when mechanical grabs began to replace workers and trucks began to replace trains. In one book, in fact, there is a picture of a tracked Caterpillar is seen pulling a string of empties down the track!

I think I am going to have to just cut the timbers for the frame then putter around with card stock and scrap wood to see what looks “right.” Styrene is available locally, so GAP your homemade journals have real appeal. For a number of reasons, ranging from saving on shipping cost to achieving modeling goals, I like to procure what I can from our local community or at least the local “big box store!”

Eric

Eric

Rail traffic for sugar cane it is still running here in Australia today.

The local mills have over 200 Km of track running between the cane farms and the mills they are most active between July and November (the crushing season) these days cane is cut into billets( about 12-18" long) and loaded into bins.

One sugar mill has a molasses pipeline directly to a distillery here that makes “Bundaberg Rum”

I also volunteer at a cane museum that has 3 restored sugar cane steamers and a diesel loco.

I have lived in sugar cane country since 1962 so may be able to answer any questions you may have, I have seen so many cane wagon designs.

For scratch building what we call “paddle pop” sticks (used for icecream/ices on sticks) are almost scale size planks. https://www.ebay.com.au/b/Paddle-Pop-Stick/128775/bn_72172850

GAP,

Thanks again! Not only are our trains gone, but industrial sugar production recently followed the “ka’a ahi” (fire coaches) into history, with the last plantation closing shop on Maui a few years back. I look forward to drawing from your experience!

We have similar “paddle pop” sticks locally, and it is nice to know that they are at least reasonably to scale! My professional obligation got cancelled, so my archfiend, the “Saw,” and I may do battle this weekend for a the basic frame. We’re off to the railroad this weekend, too, so I can get another look at that car.

Eric

Eric Mueller said:

GAP,

Thanks again! Not only are our trains gone, but industrial sugar production recently followed the “ka’a ahi” (fire coaches) into history, with the last plantation closing shop on Maui a few years back. I look forward to drawing from your experience!

We have similar “paddle pop” sticks locally, and it is nice to know that they are at least reasonably to scale! My professional obligation got cancelled, so my archfiend, the “Saw,” and I may do battle this weekend for a the basic frame. We’re off to the railroad this weekend, too, so I can get another look at that car.

Eric

Eric,

I volunteer at a Sugar Cane Railway museum locally and can draw on that experience as well if you need help.

We have 2 operating and 2 under restoration steam locos as well as a diesel powered one, the museum runs train rides on cane cars converted to take passengers.

Personally I would just buy the Pasidump kits and use them as the basis for a bash. They come pre stained but an overnight soak in bleach yields a pale timber that just begs for a new stain/paint and they have all the bits to make the base for a convincing wagon.

For reference have a look at this site it is a very comprehensive one all about sugar cane trains in Australia, the guy who maintains this is passionate about the sugar cane industry including worldwide so you may gain some inspiration (there is a reference to Hawaii in the outside Australia in the industry Information list)

https://zelmeroz.com/canesig/index.html

This site should keep you amused for ages (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

I must admit that I have limited intertest in “mainline” trains preferring small branchline/narrow gauge ones.

Eric,

If you want some pictures of cane car axle boxes I can take some of the ones at the cane railway and post them here.

Warning of the 4 cars I looked at no 2 are the same because they were made at different mills, usually by the fitters and boilermakers which was a common occurrence here in Aust.

GAP,

That would be wonderful. I am trying to do a “realism based freelance,” using as much stuff as I can procure locally as possible. Any pictures that help will be appreciated. My goal is to be consistent across our railroad, which seems to emulate what I can deduce from the photos of Hawaii’s railways. For what it is worth, I am trying to anchor our efforts in the time period 1880-1940, which, while broad is OK. Both the OR&L and the plantations it served kept things in service from the beginning to the end of rail on O’ahu.

The boys and I cut some timbers and did card-stock-and-tape modeling to validate my design. We made two prototypes, one using three beams running the length of the car, and one with two. More tinkering to follow, especially regarding journals. Do you happen to have the size of the “pasidump” journals? That’s the go / no-go on that solution. For what it is worth, I am using donated “G” scale wheel sets about 1.5" in diameter from flange to flange. I verified they have 3mm axels, and I think I have sufficient flexibility in my design to allow me to tinker with where I place the lengthwise timbers, regardless of whether we go with two or three.

Eric