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  • Topic: Keystone Christmas Locomotive Reair

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    • January 28, 2019 11:31 PM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      Keystone Christmas Locomotive Repair

      DON'T KNOW WHY THIS POSTED TWICE and why the title is wrong. Maybe administrator can remove the post below for us and fix title, if possible . Thanks.

       https://www.dropbox.com/s/metii7i61ne4ynj/s-l1600-9.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/ue22xm9vsh9564d/s-l1600-10.jpg?dl=0

       

      Hi folks,

      Sorry for the lack of photos but due to photo posting errors on this site with a smartphone, we have to link the files.

      Ken here again with Imagination Station Kids On Track Model Railroad And Train Safety Program. I have repaired just about every G scale locomotive on the market in one fashion or another for over 40 years, with the exception of a few. The reason I bring this up is that we are to receive a donation via UPS in a few days of a Keystone Christmas locomotive in need of repair.

      Now before everyone jumps the gun about how bad Keystone trains are, let me say this.

      First of all, I know of at least 8 restaurants and businesses who have run Keystone and Bachmann locomotives on their layouts professionally for 30-plus years with regular maintenance and without any problems. However, they only run three to four cars behind the engines.

      Second, 

      Most parts on Keystone locomotives, I have found to be high quality parts placed on more expensive Bachmann anniversary locomotives, such as metal side rods with high detail, brass handrails, brass bells, brass steam generators, pipes, sanders, interior detail, Etc. Another feature on many Buddy L and Keystone locomotives is there sound system which far exceeds the measly chuff-chuff of Bachman 4-6-0's. This particular locomotive even has smoke/steam simulation out of the piston area. Since the frame, wheel sets, bell, couplers, lift bar assemblies, cab, side rods, piston assemblies, cowcatchers, tender and many other detail parts match that of Bachmann Trains, I have to assume that these locomotives are built under a contract with Bachmann parts by Kaddar in China. I have also heard this is true in other blogs and forums, although I cannot fully verify it. 

      Here is two quotes,

             

       

      That's what I thought too but after I looked closely at the body, frame, side rods, wherls, cab etc. I was convinced that Kaddar (China) had built these in the same factory and with the same parts as Bachmann. So I called Bachmann and they verified that, yes, it was built under their contract for J Loyd Int. and most parts were theirs.
      Just kinda the information I received.
      The anniversary locomotives from Bachmann have matching parts.
      Hope that helps a little. 

      The Keystone and Buddy L G scale trains were manufactured by J Lloyd International. I have no way of knowing that Bachmann made them for J Loyd.
       
       

         

      Imagination Station Kids On Track/I have been told that the side rod on this locomotive is broken and I am under the assumption that Bachman anniversary locomotive side rods from Bachmann will work on this locomotive. I would like to know if anyone has any knowledge if this will work and also what may have caused this Keystone locomotive side rod to break. Is it possible that somehow it got out of quarter? I know asking these questions prematurely may not get me anywhere because no one has seen the locomotive yet but I thought that maybe someone has had some experience with these locomotives that may help us prepare for its repair

      As you can see, it's just too pretty of an engine that kids would enjoy running to throw out or not fix, so, I thought we would try to fix this engine the best way we could and use it to only to pull three or four cars under rigorous maintenance and it should last for many years to come, if we can get parts and find the problem.

       

      Any thoughts or ideas for repair or operation would be appreciated!

      (positive or negative)

      Thank you for your help

      Ken c/o

      Imagination Station Kids On Track Model Railroad And Train Safety Program 

      E. Helena, Montana 

      This post was edited by Ken Mathews/Imagination Station Kids On Track at January 29, 2019 2:07 AM EST
    • January 29, 2019 7:31 AM EST
      • Eastern Massachusetts
         
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      I would be tempted to remove the motor/gears and just  push the engine with the LGB powered tender.  Optionally the one with sound and track magnets to trigger the bell/whistle.

      This is assuming you have track power.

    • January 29, 2019 8:51 AM EST
      • Saint Johns, Florida
         
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      This post was edited by Joe Zullo at February 5, 2019 8:05 AM EST
      ____________________________________

       

       

    • January 29, 2019 5:15 PM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      Dan,

      I see the point. I guess the reason I was trying to get information is that we have run stock 6 Bachmann set locomotives for 29 years in our program for kid operation, pulling 4 cars max and have only had to replace 1 axle in that time due to rigorous lubricaton and maintenance on these items. The drive on this engine appears to be Bachmann but I won't know for sure until I dive into it. It does look identical in every way. I just thought maybe someone had owned these at some time and may know more than I do.

      Joe, you must be having the same complications as I with photos?

      I'm not able to pull anything out of the hat there??

       

    • January 29, 2019 5:31 PM EST
      • Vail, Az
         
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      Ken,

      Joe's pics show fine. Are you on the hhtps side of the Internet? Joe has been known to add the s.

      I suspect the tubes running to the cylinders is for a physical chuff feature rather than a magnetically driven one. It's possible the back pressure led to side rod failure. Though the pic doesn't show the break. We can only guess.

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • January 29, 2019 6:15 PM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      John,

      I don't know, I use a smartphone and don't have regular internet where we live. Maybe that's not pulling up everything because I had no idea there were 2 sides. All I see is 2 simulated papers with rolled corners on this end in his reply. Are they photos on your end? Maybe that's why I can't post photos on any post???  

      Anyhow, I didn't know about the back pressure causing that. That's new to me but maybe these photo links will help. If that actually causes drive rod breakage, I'll disable that system when I fix it.

      Hopefully! Ken 

       

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/6vp5k26kqu0w227/s-l1600-11.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/4vto708kchtby46/s-l1600-12.jpg?dl=0

       

    • January 29, 2019 6:44 PM EST
      • Saint Johns, Florida
         
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      This post was edited by Joe Zullo at February 5, 2019 7:59 AM EST
      ____________________________________

       

       

    • January 29, 2019 6:48 PM EST
      • Saint Johns, Florida
         
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      John Caughey said:

      Ken,

      Joe's pics show fine. Are you on the hhtps side of the Internet? Joe has been known to add the s.

      I suspect the tubes running to the cylinders is for a physical chuff feature rather than a magnetically driven one. It's possible the back pressure led to side rod failure. Though the pic doesn't show the break. We can only guess.

      John

      Ken had this statement in his original post "This particular locomotive even has smoke/steam simulation out of the piston area."

      I think that is what those tubes to the cylinders are for. Not prototypical at all!

      ____________________________________

       

       

    • January 29, 2019 7:13 PM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      Nice Joe! Wish I could post them that way. 

      Thanks!

      Ken 

    • January 29, 2019 7:19 PM EST
      • Defending the State of Exile! ,
         
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      Looking at the picture it appears the main rods to the front drivers are broken on both sides or perhaps this is trickery on the eye? If this is the case then as John stated perhaps it's a back pressure issue??.....However I'm just throwing this out there as I have NO experience with any of it. I do not see why you cannot glue/repair the side rods and perhaps open them up a bit by ovaling out the ends for slop. I question why an LGB powered tender or anything else of that sort would make a difference as I'm sure it will run just fine with out the side rods??

    • January 29, 2019 8:15 PM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      I am told that the side rods are metal, so glue may not work and the links at the top to Drop Box show the other side in good shape, as far as I can see, however Bachmann is sending a set of new side rods. They are silver though. Might look a bit strange?? I just hope there is no quartering problem or back pressure, as previously mentioned or that will have to be fixed first. Creating slop may help though, if it's within reason I assume.

      Ken

      This post was edited by Ken Mathews/Imagination Station Kids On Track at January 29, 2019 8:16 PM EST
    • January 29, 2019 9:05 PM EST
      • Vail, Az
         
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      I'd make brass sleeves and then drill and pin for mechanical strength.

       

      http://www.specialshapes.com/rectub014.html

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • January 29, 2019 10:37 PM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      Interesting!:I never thought of that but we won't need to with the new parts coming. I did save the website though! Good information for future parts needs.

      Thanks, John

      Ken

    • February 5, 2019 5:06 AM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      Back again,

      Recieved the locomotive today 

    • February 5, 2019 5:47 AM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      We received the locomotive today as mentioned above (double post again) and found the motor, gears, wheels, etc. in great shape. The side rods were broken due to a front wheel/axle slipping out of the plastic axle insulator. The insulator is not broken or cracked. I'm sure a bit of epoxy will permanently fix the problem since the fit is tight, however I need to replace the side rods with original ones (or ones that fit) since I made an $11.00 pre judgement error in favor of Bachmann side rods which are 1/2 inch longer. The Keystone side rods are 6 centimeters in length between the rear posts and center post and 6.5 centimeters between the front and center posts. Just curious if anyone has any side rods from Keystone or Buddy L locomotives or maybe an LGB mogul would work, or another manufacturer. Any ideas appreciated.

      Please check out the photos. It may help and will let you see the drive up close.

      Thanks!

      Ken 

      imagination Station Kids On Track Model Railroad And Train Safety Program 

    • February 5, 2019 6:02 AM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      Here are the photos on Dropbox,

      Apologies, smartphones are not able to post photos directly.

      Bottom side rod is Bachmann, top is Keystone, in second photo below.

       

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhftkrb76t04tvy/20190205_024454.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5g6bkt3yr4r3jn/20190205_024601.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/sj6k65f45bi3s45/20190205_024516.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhy1oz44574xluh/20190205_024712.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/y07c930joae47uw/20190205_024838.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/dx13uj6qx9bqilo/20190205_024722.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/549kjwooqxikj2d/20190205_024746.jpg?dl=0

       

    • February 5, 2019 6:12 AM EST
      • Winmalee, NSW Australia
         
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      This post was edited by Mick Benton at February 5, 2019 6:48 PM EST
    • February 5, 2019 6:13 AM EST
      • Winmalee, NSW Australia
         
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      This post was edited by Mick Benton at February 5, 2019 6:49 PM EST
    • February 5, 2019 6:37 AM EST
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      Mick,

      I don't know how you guys do that but Thank You so much!

      Really Appreciate it. 

      That'll help folks see what were dealing with.

      Ken

    • March 14, 2019 12:47 AM EDT
      • E. Helena , Montana
         
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      Todd, Forum Members,

      I thought I would share photos of all your hard work, supplies and craftsmanship for some of the other folks to see on this forum. I wish I could get the photos to display directly on this post reply but unfortunately, once again, photos do not post from smartphones, which is all I have. I do hope however, that these links to Dropbox will once again suffice.

      I do want to thank Todd and his family for their support of our program and helping us get both of these locomotives up and running. The side rods on the Christmas engine were broken and as you can see in the photos, his side rods that he made worked fantastic. The main rod on our makeshift Polar Express locomotive needed a much longer main rod due to Barry's Big Trains longer 2-8-0 wheelbase. Parts we're added to this locomotive to try to bring it closer to the look of The Polar Express locomotive. This locomotive, of course, was a Lionel 2-4-2 Atlantic and Barry designed his drive to fit under the Lionel body. The only problem was that the wheelbase was too long for a standard Bachmann main rod.

      That is where Todd came in and made us quite a long main rod for this locomotive that extended from the third wheel back to the piston assembly. When I receive this locomotive, it wasn't completed, with the body completely separated from the chassis and drive. I had to add mounting brackets, put the bell up front, add various steam engine parts, add the steam chest the barry had, complete the electrical, add a few brakes, fix a loose wheel insert, fix the front truck contacts and of course ask Todd to make the main Rod longer along with the side rods he was already making for the Keystone Christmas locomotive. I know there are detail parts that are missing or inaccurate but it's as close as we could come for now.

      The Polar Express tender was found on eBay because our Lionel, New York Central tender was never delivered to us. We would have used that tender and decaled it in the Polar Express name, if we had it. We got lucky in one aspect because someone on eBay had this Polar Express tender and even though it is inaccurate to the film and in scale and the locomotive is not a Berkshire, I don't think kids will notice or care.

      Both locomotives run fantastic now and have most of the parts they are supposed to have, thanks to Todd. I hope all these photos are viewable and I want to express my appreciation, along with that of our volunteers  to Todd for his time, supplies and craftsmanship in making these parts.

      It is absolutely amazing, as seen in the photos, the detail and craftsmanship that he was able to put into these parts with the laser. He is also very patient because I gave him the wrong size at first and we had to mail parts back and forth a couple of times but eventually got it right.

      Thanks Todd! 

      Thousands of kids will now get to enjoy these trains for years to come because of your help!

      (One of these days we may figure out how to display photos on posts and replies off our smartphone, if it's even possible. For now let's hope everyone can view the links).

      Ken c/o Imagination Station Kids On Track Model Railroad And Train Safety Program 

      E. Helena, Montana 

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/bsbqh2j7awxtqy5/20190312_223441.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/uozmbfomqyikn4f/20190312_223521.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/yx015oybujgs3tu/20190312_224102.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/puxq1jaz5qzprmb/20190312_224228.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/gw4od23lwi2x997/20190312_223536.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0hetx7wgrjgkr8/20190312_020821.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/rzk8ozwcq353dqp/20190312_020900.jpg?dl=0

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/lie9gozvrexdswb/20190312_223605.jpg?dl=0

       

      By the way Rooster, both sides were broken and the side rods on this Keystone Christmas locomotive were not metal, as I previously thought.

      This post was edited by Ken Mathews/Imagination Station Kids On Track at March 14, 2019 7:09 PM EDT
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