Interesting…
I’m glad I have the stuff (minus batteries) that I need. However, the temptations of DCC sounds and the Protothrottle have me rethinking my control systems.
yep, time to graduate!
I found my Zimo system has XpressNet, which should let the ProtoThrottle plug in.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
yep, time to graduate!
I found my Zimo system has XpressNet, which should let the ProtoThrottle plug in.
Greg
Not to get too far off topic, but if I (or someone else) could design/build a interface that eliminates the base command station and fits it on board (like Martin Saint’s Bluetooth board) and communicates with the Protothrottle I would be sold in a heart beat. I think it’s doable, I just don’t have the coding experience to understand how to make it work.
Craig Townsend said:
Greg Elmassian said:
yep, time to graduate!
I found my Zimo system has XpressNet, which should let the ProtoThrottle plug in.
Greg
Not to get too far off topic, but if I (or someone else) could design/build a interface that eliminates the base command station and fits it on board (like Martin Saint’s Bluetooth board) and communicates with the Protothrottle I would be sold in a heart beat. I think it’s doable, I just don’t have the coding experience to understand how to make it work.
My blue-sky dream is for some kind of wireless standard to emerge, where I can buy a handheld unit from Company A and Company D, and receivers from Company B and Company C and they all work together flawlessly.
It’s also not likely to happen unless there is some kind of DCC/DeadRail standard emerging in the other scales, of which I don’t see. Everyone seems to be rolling their own deadrail system, just like large scale did.
Bob McCown said:
My blue-sky dream is for some kind of wireless standard to emerge, where I can buy a handheld unit from Company A and Company D, and receivers from Company B and Company C and they all work together flawlessly.
It’s also not likely to happen unless there is some kind of DCC/DeadRail standard emerging in the other scales, of which I don’t see. Everyone seems to be rolling their own deadrail system, just like large scale did.
How true! I’ve changed “systems” too many times and it is just too proprietary to keep doing it anymore.
Nice dream!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)
Bob McCown said:
My blue-sky dream is for some kind of wireless standard to emerge, where I can buy a handheld unit from Company A and Company D, and receivers from Company B and Company C and they all work together flawlessly.
It’s also not likely to happen unless there is some kind of DCC/DeadRail standard emerging in the other scales, of which I don’t see. Everyone seems to be rolling their own deadrail system, just like large scale did.
Boy wouldn’t that be nice.
Hi Bob.
Whatever is decide upon it will have to be the same Worldwide. The only frequency that I am aware of that is legal everywhere is 2.4 Ghz.
I have a hunch that the existing Digital Proportional 2.4 Ghz standards such as DSM2 and DSMX will emerge as a de facto standard. For all scales.
Deltang in the UK is making 2.4 Ghz battery R/C systems right down to fit “N” scale.
It can be made to communicate both ways and can also be made to marry with existing technologies.
Won’t be long coming either.
Bob your dream already exists.
There are several companies that sell throttles that basically put “pure” DCC (like Craig says the command station) over the air, 900 MHz, Bluetooth, and more are coming. AirWire has been doing this for YEARS.
Then, all you need is a receiver, like the Tam Valley one, or the AirWire one, that receives the signal and feeds it to a “stock” DCC decoder.
There are some fine points: you still do not have the advantage of a single command station knowing what ALL the throttles are doing, and you don’t have sharing of the data about consists, etc.
But you do have an existing, proven communication standard that works.
So you do have a certain amount of mix and match right now… also you can take a DCC system, like an NCE, or other, and use it as is, and feed the booster output to a deadrail transmitter…
It’s all here now, and more to come, and the decoders are part of the mainstream hobby, it’s just more throttles and transmitters on more fequencies you want.
You could start with 900 MHz TODAY. That’s what I would do, and see how long before there are inexpensive Wi-Fi units coming.
Greg
Bob McCown said:
Craig Townsend said:
Greg Elmassian said:
yep, time to graduate!
I found my Zimo system has XpressNet, which should let the ProtoThrottle plug in.
Greg
Not to get too far off topic, but if I (or someone else) could design/build a interface that eliminates the base command station and fits it on board (like Martin Saint’s Bluetooth board) and communicates with the Protothrottle I would be sold in a heart beat. I think it’s doable, I just don’t have the coding experience to understand how to make it work.
My blue-sky dream is for some kind of wireless standard to emerge, where I can buy a handheld unit from Company A and Company D, and receivers from Company B and Company C and they all work together flawlessly.
It’s also not likely to happen unless there is some kind of DCC/DeadRail standard emerging in the other scales, of which I don’t see. Everyone seems to be rolling their own deadrail system, just like large scale did.
I sure wish I could agree, but my experience with 900 MHz units has been abysmal. I do not have a large layout, but I could not control a locomotive at the other end; that’s typically not a problem when operating as I walk besides the train, and just about everything works. But, sometimes you just like to watch the train go around the layout - and blow the whistle at the other end while sitting on the patio…
Again, the frequency used is something that can change… just using the radio to transmit DCC protocol is the key…
Also, perhaps you were using a duplex system, which is constrained to much lower power, than a unidirectional system…
My NCE system on 900 MHz would go 50 feet ok… but I’m off on Zigbee on 2.4 GHz so it goes through the house now.
But looking at the entire solution and focusing on the radio frequency is a distraction… the key is that you can use ANY transmitter/receiver pair and the DCC protocol is the common link… AirWire uses 900 MHz… Right now I’d probably use a Bluetooth pair… the high power 4.0 stuff has pretty good range… and is inexpensive…
Greg
Hmmmm … So why is Cordless Renovations closing the doors ?
Do not give me that link… too many work filters …
I would give you my take, but it’s not nice to kick a person when he is down.
All I would say is look at the attitude and accuracy of information posted over the years. Do you remember the hilarious discussion about the “special” and “unique” method of series and parallel wiring they used? That was very early on and really explains a lot.
You also remember the whole mess of who owns the RCS product name?
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Again, the frequency used is something that can change… just using the radio to transmit DCC protocol is the key…
Also, perhaps you were using a duplex system, which is constrained to much lower power, than a unidirectional system…
My NCE system on 900 MHz would go 50 feet ok… but I’m off on Zigbee on 2.4 GHz so it goes through the house now.
But looking at the entire solution and focusing on the radio frequency is a distraction… the key is that you can use ANY transmitter/receiver pair and the DCC protocol is the common link… AirWire uses 900 MHz… Right now I’d probably use a Bluetooth pair… the high power 4.0 stuff has pretty good range… and is inexpensive…
Greg
The frequency can change, but then I’m stuck with the old one. I tried Airwire - and that was pretty cool for all the sound effects you could trigger - as long as I was close to the locomotive - but when I tried to control the sounds from my patio, it failed. Then it dawned on me that all I really needed was chuff, whistle and bell, so I went with the Aristo Revolution. OK, I couldn’t do all the sounds but I could control my locomotive from anywhere - even on Andy’s layout! It works fine for me; it has great range and is perfect for my use; but, I’m more than a little worried about the proprietary nature.
We should pull this into its own thread. I have a bunch of questions and comments.
Bruce Chandler said:
I sure wish I could agree, but my experience with 900 MHz units has been abysmal. But, sometimes you just like to watch the train go around the layout - and blow the whistle at the other end while sitting on the patio… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
Bruce Chandler said:
I sure wish I could agree, but my experience with 900 MHz units has been abysmal. I do not have a large layout, but I could not control a locomotive at the other end; that’s typically not a problem when operating as I walk besides the train, and just about everything works. But, sometimes you just like to watch the train go around the layout - and blow the whistle at the other end while sitting on the patio… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
Yes Bob, can you duplicate this into another thread and remove the non cordless renovations stuff here?
Or, just rename it and delete the cordless renovations stuff if Bob C. does not mind since it would probably degenerate into something not nice…
Anyway, would love to discuss more, for example, poor experience with AirWire does not mean 900 MHz is not good, it means AirWire’s implementation of 900 MHz is more likely the culprit.
Although I agree, given the usage of that band and the technologies involved, long range bluetooth would be better, or low cost wi-fi, or what I use 2.4 GHz Zigbee… but the point is the radio link is INDEPENDENT of the protocol, send DCC over the air, it works, it has been done, it is available, and it’s more than enough in capability for 99.9% of the users.
Greg
Yaah…I apologize for the topic drift. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)
I’m just a guilty if not more so.