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  • Topic: Accucraft Fairymead physical size?

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    • May 13, 2018 3:36 PM EDT

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      Accucraft Fairymead physical size?

       

      Hi,

       

      Can someone post a photograph of a Bachmann, or an Accucraft, 1:20.3 4-4-0 sitting next to an Accucraft 7/8ths scale Fairymead?

      I would like to get an idea of just how physically large the Accucraft Fairymead actually is.

       

      http://accucraft.com/modelc/AL87-810.htm#page=page-1

       

      Thank you,

       

      Norman

       

       

    • May 13, 2018 7:34 PM EDT
      • Holley, NY
         
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      I checked to see if any of my locos matched the size of the 1:20.3 4-4-0 for photo purposes and came up short.

      How about taking some cardboard and making up some boxes that match the sizes of the locos in question?  It would be interesting to see the size of the prototype Fairymead compared to the Baldwin loco you are looking at modeling.  Those dimensions should be available from the sources to which you were directed.

      One thing to remember is that at the scale of 1:13.7 representing 2' gauge on 45mm track the locos and trains tend to be large models of small prototypes.  When I exhibit my portable live steam track it is interesting to see viewers reaction when I tell them that my 7/8 DeWinton would fit inside the oval and that Fairymead and Decauville are slightly larger.   My portable track is 13' x 17' with 6' and 5' radius curves on which many live steamers can run.

      This post was edited by Tom Bowdler at May 13, 2018 7:35 PM EDT
    • May 14, 2018 9:33 AM EDT
      • Shut up Rooster
         
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      I dont have the Fairymead but have the 4-4-0 and when comparing the two the Fairymead is large compared to the accucraft 4-4-0.  Eric Shade has one try and see if he can get you a photo.

    • May 14, 2018 11:58 AM EDT
      • Phippsburg, Maine
         
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      My fairymead is 8inches tall, 5 1/2 inches wide and about 14 inches long not counting my wooden pilot which is another 3 inches.

       

    • May 14, 2018 4:36 PM EDT
      • Fort Myers Beach & Annapolis, Florida & Maryland
         
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      You might find this useful:

       

       

      The two locos bottom right are problably pretty close to the size of the Fairymead and the 4-4-0.

      ____________________________________

       

        Pete

    • May 14, 2018 5:48 PM EDT

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      Hi,

       

      The cute little LGB Chloe 3 foot gauge at 1:22.5 scale is the same locomotive as the Accucraft Fairymead two foot gauge at 7/8ths scale.

       
      It will be interesting to see some photos.
       
      From viewing the Scot Lawrence drawing, the Accucraft Fairymead is huge.
       
      Are there any manufacturers of 2 foot Gauge locomotives at 1/24 Scale to operate on S Gauge track?
       
       
       
      Norman

       

    • May 14, 2018 6:45 PM EDT
      • Kokomo, Indiana
         
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      7/8ths scale makes little engines seem huge when compared to other large scale engines running on 45mm track.   Just wait till the forth coming 0-4-4T Maine Portland Forney from Accucraft comes out.  Its big!   

    • May 14, 2018 7:56 PM EDT
      • Holley, NY
         
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      Fairymead is NOT huge and, though similar, is not the same locomotive as Chloe.  According to Accucraft's stats the 4-4-0 you asked about is 7.68" high, 4.13" wide and 26.8" long but it has a tender.  the Fairymead is 7.5 " high, 5.6" wide and 13.6" long.  Compare those figures.  

      You don't seem to grasp the concept of a small prototype made large to make the track appear to be a smaller gauge.  That is one of the weird aspects of large scale modeling.  Everything from 1:32 for standard gauge to 1:13 for 2' gauge on the same 45mm track.

      1:24 scale on S gauge track...you're kidding right?  Manufacturers are in business to make money.  How many would buy that combination.

      So tell us what you are trying to achieve and more meaningful advice could be given.  Live steam locomotives in our scales are made mostly in 32mm and 45mm gauge with some in Ga 3.

      This post was edited by Tom Bowdler at May 14, 2018 8:33 PM EDT
    • May 14, 2018 11:45 PM EDT

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      Hi Mr. Tom Bowdler,

       

      My question,

      What is the Generic Name for :
       
      Track,   S Gauge at  7/8 " or 22.43 mm to represent two foot gauge.
       
      Scale,   1/24
       
       
      24 * 22.43 mm = 538.32mm = 21.2 " = two foot gauge

       

      Please first read the following internet research as shown below before answering,

      ___________________________________________________________________________________

       
       
      Generic Name Gn15
       
       
       
      TRACK,   HO Gauge at 5/8 " or 16 mm 
                    to represent 14 inch gauge at 1/22.5 Scale or ? inch gauge at 1/24 Scale.
       
       
      Scale,   1:22.5   or  1:24 
       
      22.5 * 16 mm = 360 mm = 14"
       
      24 * 16 mm = 384 mm = 15"
       
       
      Gn15 name was thought up to describe the Sidelines range of kits, which Steve Warrington and myself were developing back in early 2000. They were originally conceived as being 1:22.5 scale, using 16.5mm gauge track to represent 15 inch gauge
       
      _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
       
      Generic Name ?
       
      Track,   S Gauge at  7/8 " or 22.43 mm to represent two foot gauge.
       
      Scale,   1/24
       
       
      24 * 22.43 mm = 538.32mm = 21.2 " = two foot gauge
       
      _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
       
      Generic Name SM32
       
       
      TRACK,   O Gauge at 1 1/4 " or 32 mm ( PECO SM32 ) to represent two foot gauge.
       
       
      Scale,   1:19   or  16 mm to the foot or simply referred to as SM32 
       
       
      ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
       
       
      Generic Name 1:13.7  or  7/8 ths 
       
       
      TRACK,   1 Gauge at 45 mm ( LGB ) to represent two foot gauge.
       
      Scale,      1:13.7  or  7/8 ths
       
       
      Example,  Accucraft Fairymead 0-4-2T
       
      ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

       

       

       

    • May 14, 2018 11:52 PM EDT

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      To be exact,

       

      609.6 mm / 22.43 mm = 27
       
      S Gauge track at 1/27 scale = 24" = two foot gauge
    • May 15, 2018 12:14 AM EDT

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      I have found this,

       

      http://www.argyleloco.com.au/images/popularscalesandgauges.jpg

       

      http://www.oscalekings.org/images/model_sizes.jpg

    • May 15, 2018 8:08 AM EDT
      • Shut up Rooster
         
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      Norman what are you looking to do?  I don't understand what you want or looking to do.  

      This post was edited by Shawn Viggiano at May 15, 2018 8:08 AM EDT
    • May 15, 2018 9:19 AM EDT
      • Holley, NY
         
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      Norman,

           I have been in the live steam branch of this hobby for over 20 years and have built layouts from Z scale (1:220) to 1:13.7.  Since I often exhibit at train shows I am conversant with the scales and gauges that are most common since I have the opportunity to answer a lot of questions in this regard from show goers.  Shawn and Eric are also very knowledgeable and we would like to help you.

           It is easy to get confused by scale and gauge.  My smallest locomotive, a Cricket, is 7" long and my largest (now sold on) was an East Broad Top Mikado at 36" long yet both are built to the same scale (1:20) to run on the same track. (45mm - gauge 1)  So the size comparison shown in the illustrations from Scot Lawrence (referenced by Pete T) and Gordon Watson (Argyle) are only that, a comparison.

           If you want live steam in any scale you should settle for either 32mm or 45mm gauge unless you can find a custom builder who would scratch build to your specifications.  You could buy a ready to run or kit live steam chassis from Roundhouse engineering in England and build the body work.  I have seen the chassis of electric locomotives converted to live steam which I suppose you could do in S gauge if that was your desire.  There are some obscure suppliers who sell HO gauge live steam but they are toy like and run for a very short time.  I have a friend who built an On30 vertical boiler locomotive which runs well.  If you would scratchbuild your track you could do any gauge you want.

           Then there is the matter of rolling stock.  There is a lot of ready to run and kits available in the major live steam scales.  Again scratch building is an option if nothing readily available suits you. 

           The social aspect of this hobby is a strong draw for me.  If you use one of the common gauges you can get together at steamups with other live steamers.  Also if you tell us where you are located we can probably put you in touch with a local steamer who would help you on your journey.  Send a private message if you don't wish to broadcast your location.

           The bottom line is that we would like you to achieve the level of satisfaction and enjoyment we have found in live steam.  I think you need to settle on a common scale/gauge combination and go forward.

      Best regards,

      Tom

      This post was edited by Tom Bowdler at May 15, 2018 9:21 AM EDT
    • May 15, 2018 1:35 PM EDT
      • Rochester, NY
         
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      Norman Bourgault said:

       

      My question,

      What is the Generic Name for :
       Track,   S Gauge at  7/8 " or 22.43 mm to represent two foot gauge.
       
       
       
       

      Norman,

      I adapted S-scale track to model 2-foot gauge prototypes, I call it 29n2 scale:

       

      https://scotlawrence.github.io/29n2/index.html

       

      I created 29n2 scale 14 years ago, and as far as I know, I am still the only person modeling in that scale! ;)

      which is fine..

       

      yes, S-scale track is technically too wide for 24" track in 1/29 scale.

      S-scale track gauge is 22.42mm, and 2-foot gauge in 1/29 scale is 21mm.

      For a total discrepancy of 1.42mm, close enough for me! ;)

      (as has already been said, If using S-scale track for 2-foot gauge, it scales out to 1/27 scale)

      But since 1/27 is not an existing model railroad scale, but 1/29 is, I decieded to "adopt" the S-scale track gauge for use with 29n2 scale..

      IMO, its definitely close enough..

       

      I kitbashed a Bachmann "Indy" Industrial Mogul into a 29n2 scale Maine forney:

       

      S-scale track on the left representing 29n2 scale track, 1/29 scale standard gauge on the right, both models are 1/29 scale:

       

      And I scratchbuilt a boxcar:

       

       

      more details in the link above..

       

      Your question about using S-scale track to model 2-footers in 1/24 scale does not compute. ;) because S-scale track is not a good size match for 1/24 scale. There are no commercially available 2-foot gauge models in 1/24 scale, they dont exist.  And as far as I know, there is no 2-foot modeling in 1/24 scale. someone has probably done it! ;) but if so, it is not known in the hobby at large..

       

      For "large scale" modeling of 2-foot gauge prototypes, you have three options:

       

      7/8n2 scale, 1/13.7 scale, which is 2-foot gauge on 45mm track. There are some commercially made models in this scale. (the Accucraft Fairymead is one)

       

      1/19 scale, which is 2-foot gauge on 32mm track (O-scale track). There are some commercially available models in this scale.

       

      29n2 scale, 2-foot gauge in 1/29 scale, discussed above. using S-scale track. There are no commercially made models in 29n2 scale, only the few models I have made.

       

      then of course there is also  On2, Sn2, HOn2, and probably Nn2.

        

      Scot

       

       

      This post was edited by Scot Lawrence at June 3, 2018 4:42 PM EDT
    • May 15, 2018 3:11 PM EDT

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      Hi everyone,

       

      Thank you for the information. I will choose 1:19 Scale SM32 for my two foot gauge models.

       

      Maybe the 1/24 Scale Delton freelance 3 foot 1/24 scale narrow gauge passenger cars could then " pass " as two foot narrow gauge passenger cars at the larger 1:19 scale.  

       

      Scot has the perfect two foot gauge idea using S scale gauge track at 1/29 Scale. Indoor modelers could use that product.

       

      I did find some old internet articles with links to some two foot gauge product manufacturers. Those are all now non-existent. 

       

      Thanks again,

      Norman

       

       

    • May 15, 2018 3:35 PM EDT
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      Norman Bourgault said:

       

      Hi everyone,

       

      Thank you for the information. I will choose 1:19 Scale SM32 for my two foot gauge models.

       

      Maybe the 1/24 Scale Delton freelance 3 foot 1/24 scale narrow gauge passenger cars could then " pass " as two foot narrow gauge passenger cars at the larger 1:19 scale.  

       

      Scot has the perfect two foot gauge idea using S scale gauge track at 1/29 Scale. Indoor modelers could use that product.

       

      I did find some old internet articles with links to some two foot gauge product manufacturers. Those are all now non-existent. 

       

      Thanks again,

      Norman

       

       

       

       

       

       

      If you look at some of the UK dealers they make a bunch of 1:19 scale stuff that run on 32mm track also know as 16mm.  Here is a link to the 16mm association  https://www.16mm.org.uk/.  Regner easy line steam engines ca be reguaged to 45 and 32 and Roundhouse you can order 32 or 45mm gauge as well.  There are a lot more options out there by going 16mm.

       

    • May 15, 2018 7:31 PM EDT
      • Holley, NY
         
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      Norman,

            I think you will be very happy with your decision.  There are enough options to keep you in this hobby for a long time.

            If you happen to be anywhere near Philly the US branch of the 16mm association is having its annual meet over the Memorial Day weekend.  Send me a pm and I'll put you in touch with the organizer.

      Best regards,

      Tom

    • May 15, 2018 10:54 PM EDT

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      Regarding 1/29 Scale, I posted this on the Bachmann Large Scale Forum as Scot's idea of 1/29 scale makes so much sense given that 0 Gauge track also represents 3 foot gauge. 1/29 is the perfect common scale for the three gauges. ( Ignoring the standard gauge 4' 8 1/2" gauge error at 1/29 Scale )

       

       

      Dear Mr. Bachmann,

      Referring to Mr. Scot Lawrence's 29n2 article,
      https://scotlawrence.github.io/29n2/index.html


      S Gauge track = 7/8 " or 22.43 mm

      0 Gauge track = 1 1/4 " or 32 mm ( 3 foot Gauge ) * 2/3 = 21.33 mm

      The ratio of 0 Gauge : S Gauge = The ratio of three foot gauge : two foot gauge.

      At the scale of 1/28.5 ,

      1 Gauge track at 44.45 mm * 28.5 = 1266.825 mm = 49.875 inch
      4' 8 1/2" = 56.5 inch
      56.5 inch - 49.875 inch = 6.625 inch = that is 6 5/8 inch too narrow track

      0 Gauge track at 32 mm * 28.5 = 912 mm = 35.91 inch , that is 0.09 inch too narrow track

      S Gauge track at 22.43 mm * 28.5 = 639.255 mm = 25.17 inch , that is 1.17 inch too wide track


      Inline image
      http://www.oscalekings.org/images/model_sizes.jpg


      Clearly Scot's idea of 1/29 Scale should be adopted by large scale manufactures as 1 Gauge track currently represents 4' 8 1/2" , 0 Gauge track would represent 3 foot gauge and S Gauge track would represent 2 foot gauge.

      Norman

       

       

       

    • May 16, 2018 3:05 AM EDT
      • Tingewick, Buckinghamshire
         
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      Regards rolling stock, this might be of interest - http://www.bowatersmodels.co.uk/sandy-river-and-rangeley-lakes-railroad/ - newish company in UK specializing in laser cut MDF kits, 16 mm scale, can be spec'ed to run 45 or 32 mm track gauges. Now all you need is one of Roundhouse's live steam SR&RL #24 locos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igtNpJmUszk (hope it plays ok)  But then you got to ship it  But then there may be a US based agent  Enjoy your journey.

       

       

      P.S. I could not help but notice that at the bottom of the Bowater's page that mention is made of the possibility of making their SR&RL stock available in 7/8 ths scale. What was said earlier about manufactures producing where the demand is applies here - 7/8 ths is starting to gain traction (geddit !) in the marketplace and the established manufacturers are taking notice and willing to take the risk. Why ? Possibly because there are a lot of model railroaders out there running on 45 mm gauge track looking for something different and as the rest of the market appears a little depressed of late so it's a way of buoying up sales and creating new ones.

      This post was edited by Max Winter at May 16, 2018 3:29 AM EDT
    • May 16, 2018 2:13 PM EDT
      • Fort Myers Beach & Annapolis, Florida & Maryland
         
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      Dear Mr. Bachmann,

      Referring to Mr. Scot Lawrence's 29n2 article,

      Norman, as Bachmann already are heavily invested in On30 on HO track and various "G scales", it seems unlikely they would be interested in yet another combination.  But no harm in asking!

      making their SR&RL stock available in 7/8 ths scale.

      Max, there are plenty of Roudnhouse SR&RL #24 locos over here in the US, and they also made a Forney in 16mm (1:19th) which will match the Bowaters SR&RL cars. 
      Jason at The Train Department is heavily invested in fine scale 7/8ths models, and has commissioned a Forney in 7/8ths, mentioned above.  (There's a photo of the prototype running at DH somewhere, showing just how big it is!)  He sells a SR&RL flat car kit in 7/8ths.
      https://www.thetraindepartment.com/7-8ths-products/rolling-stock-kits-7-8ths-1-13-7/

       

       

       

      ____________________________________

       

        Pete

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