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  • Topic: Hale & Norcross Dump Trestles

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    • April 6, 2018 3:37 PM EDT
      • Highland, Maryland
         
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      Hale & Norcross Dump & Trestle Model

      Hey friends,

       

      This will be the continuation of my H&N mine model build, covered here:

      Hale & Norcross Mine Model

       

      The model's main structure was completed in January, but it lacked the final touch: a trestle coming out of the doors over the ore bin, which took the waste rock to the dump piles on the other side of the V&T track.

       

       

      In my 1/3/18 post on the original thread, I mentioned that this trestle project would be strange in a fun way, because site research would affect the design; and that site work has only just started. But the findings thus far, along with a couple "new" photo discoveries, have given me enough info to get me close enough (hopefully). So I wanted to post on where things stand at this point.

       

      Here's the current design model, showing the ore bin at the center. At its far end is a short trestle, and the jury is still out on why it was there. From the ore bin, moving left, are the bridge across the RR tracks; the start of the dump trestle; a shed and ore bin (built ca. 1980); and the trestle as it continued on for some distance.   

       

       

      Originally, because of the earliest photos, I had designed the whole thing like this:

       

       

      However, my period is slightly later, ~1890. By then the right fork of the trestle had been chopped off, the little bin at the bottom was gone, and a puzzling shed and bin built where the stub of the trestle fork was. I found out about that shed last October, when I prowled around the site. Here it is, but all flattened. In the foreground are remains of the trestle, with the ore bin off to the left. It's kinda amazing any of this is there; original Comstock mine structures have practically disappeared. 

       

       

      After some photo work, I saw that this shed had been there since at least as far back as 1880. Since I'm modeling in the 90's, I reworked the model to accommodate it. That was February-ish I think.

       

      BUT, two things happened. The first site visit was performed (by 2 Comstock historians and 1 VP of the V&T TT Historical society, no less!). They confirmed that there was an ore bin under the shed; and, looking through the debris, they noticed the bin went to the east! I'd modeled it going to the west, based on my blurry understanding of even blurrier pics. Around that time, a "new" photo went up for auction, one never seen by the historians I know. One alerted me to it, and here it is, from ~1885:

       

       

       

      Between this and the site observations, we concluded that the bin dumped to the east (right, in the above photo), with a wagon road serving its chute. So I again reworked the design for those conclusions. Understand that my model is very compressed, left to right. If it weren't, the chute and loading area would be completely hidden, as it was in the above photo.

       

       

       OK, enough with the history stuff. More field work will happen in the next month, but I need to get started on the model if I want to show pics of it next October. Here's the overall module:

       

       

       

       This will (hopefully) be an animated model. The ore bin doors will open, the ore car (& miner) come out on the trestle. When nearing the shed, its door opens, with another figure attached. Some audio of them talking happens. Ore car goes to the end, and it all reverses. The shed will house the controller, MP3 player / amp, speaker, some lights & relays. Power will come from the nearby track rail (DCC).

       

       

      The modeling has been with a view to laser cut as much as possible. Here's the waste hill with the Magicsculp shell hidden.

       

       

      As with the main mine model, all the bits & pieces are slotted / tabbed for easy assembly and greater surface area for the cement. I think I'm finally done with the patterns, with this being an example:

       

       

       Here's all the pieces, with the laser patterns on the left, and cedar stock cutting drawings on the right. This doesn't show much; just wanted to give you a feel for what comes next.

       

       

       And, what comes next is ---- finally ---- the start of cutting operations! So I'll be posting on that as things move along. 

       

      Cheers,

      Cliff

       

      This post was edited by Cliff Jennings at April 6, 2018 9:30 PM EDT
    • April 6, 2018 4:32 PM EDT
      • Sherwood Park, Alberta
         
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      Wow Cliff, I can't believe the size of your project. You're going to need to rent some heavy equipment to move it into place once complete.

      Looking forward to seeing more progress.

       

      Shane

       

    • April 6, 2018 4:53 PM EDT
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      After seeing just a small portion of this complex at the D&B all I can say is WOW.  I will be watching Cliff

      ____________________________________

      www.cvsry.com www.cvsry.com

    • April 6, 2018 4:59 PM EDT
      • Burke, Virginia
         
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      Totally off the deep end, Cliff.

      I hate to tell you but in the photo it's pretty clear that one of the nails is bent to the left; but on your model, it's bent to the right.   What were you thinking????

       

      Absolutely outstanding work.   Well done!

      ____________________________________

      Bruce

      http://jbrr.com/

       

    • April 6, 2018 5:27 PM EDT
      • West Grove, Pennsylvania
         
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      Yea, what they all said.....................and then some..............

      ____________________________________

      "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --Martin Luther King Jr

    • April 6, 2018 5:40 PM EDT
      • Missouri
         
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      Cliff Jennings said:

      Here's the current design model, showing the ore bin at the center. At its far end is a short trestle, and the jury is still out on why it was there. From the ore bin, moving left, are the bridge across the RR tracks; the start of the dump trestle; a shed and ore bin (built ca. 1980); and the trestle as it continued on for some distance.   

       

       

       

      Man, that looks almost ready for use in Trainz railroad simulator.

    • April 6, 2018 8:28 PM EDT
      • Highland, Maryland
         
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      Thanks very much guys, you're very kind! 

      And I sure appreciate your following this, that's always a great motivator for me to get away from the 'puter and get something built! 

    • April 6, 2018 8:33 PM EDT
      • Waverly, Alabama
         
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      WOW.  Are you going to provide popcorn and coke with this episode? I can't wait to see this build come together.  I'll be anxiously waiting for each new episode .

      ____________________________________

       

    • April 6, 2018 9:29 PM EDT
      • Shawn carries, A Purse 02B12,
         
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      Where is the telegraph office as the lines go into it somewhere and exit it somewhere.

      Just fantastic research Cliff ! Ya' done sold the old bastards on your findings!

    • April 6, 2018 9:39 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
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      I just looked in the Mineral database and of the products mined at Hale & Norcross, perhaps the Zinc was hauled off in wagons. Might have been used locally.

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • April 7, 2018 6:39 AM EDT
      • Southern Illinois
         
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      What a cool thread to follow, your attention to detail is great!

    • April 7, 2018 12:26 PM EDT
      • Pleasanton, CA
         
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      Fantabulous as usual Cliff.

       

      I see in that historic photo that there's a *lot* of piles of waste "north" of the Hale & Norcross dump you are modeling. Is that for a different mine, or something else? Or is this a part of the mine that you are not modeling?

       

      Are you planning to use an Arduino or something lie that to control the animation? Are you going to trigger the animations through DCC or have it be time based? How do you plan to move your figures exactly? Just attached to the car and door? Or separately moved?

       

      So many questions! I'm psyched to follow this build!

       

    • April 7, 2018 8:17 PM EDT
      • Highland, Maryland
         
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      Thanks guys, I'm glad for your interest and participation, and I sure appreciate your kind words!

       

      Rooster, great question. I've assumed that the telegraph offices were at the depots and maybe a couple other places, but I'll have to ask around.

       

      John, zinc? Fascinating. Can you give me a reference?

       

      Jim, those are the dump piles from the next mine to the north, the Savage. The H&N's dump continued to the right (eastward), and from there radiated out. Here's a pic from the 1914 that gives an idea. None of those piles remain; they were mined as tailings, with the remaining waste spread eastward to create a huge terrace that includes today the VC fairgrounds. 

       

       

      I've been lasering today, along with attending a family event and fixing another plumbing issue. I'll post more tomorrow after I feel like I made a dent in something.

       

      Thanks so much for your interest everyone!

       

      ===>Cliffy

    • April 7, 2018 8:31 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
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      https://www.mindat.org/loc-43380.html

      Cliff I see you can sponsor that page above! Better join up eh?

       

      https://www.mindat.org/min-3727.html

       

      I've used this site to find local mines, then which might 'pan out'

      This post was edited by John Caughey at April 7, 2018 9:07 PM EDT
      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • April 8, 2018 8:40 AM EDT
      • Strattanville, PA
         
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      Wow just keeps getting better.  I find it very interesting that You are even wanting to cut a skeleton for the waste hill rather than just sculpting some cement or other material.  I guess once you are comfortable with a method....   Great modeling, great history.  Keep up the good work buddy!

      ____________________________________

      forum sig

    • April 8, 2018 11:42 AM EDT
      • Pleasanton, CA
         
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      Hey Cliff, another question. Why does the chute empty out on the "clear" side of the retaining wall? Am I just not getting it? I would have expected the chute to empty onto a pile. What's the retaining wall for?

       

    • April 8, 2018 11:55 AM EDT
      • Highland, Maryland
         
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      John, that's a neat resource, thanks! I didn't know the H&N was associated with any Cu or Zn mining, just the Ag & Au. I'd guess those other minerals (including the ones also listed in your reference) were later discovered & extracted from the waste rock & mill tailings as folks tried to find more value from what had been brought up. I'll keep my eyes open for any more info on that.

       

      Hey Randy, thanks very much! Yeah, I'm sure it looks odd to model a hill from acrylic... sure does to me! But it gave me control over how the trestle & shed & bin & loading area were supported and mutually positioned, and allows the whole gig to be hauled out for repairs. In theory. 

       

       

    • April 8, 2018 12:06 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
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      Cliff, The same 'soup' that brings up gold brings the others as a lesser mineral.

      My  'fav' mine went through changes as different ores played out, the last being Magnesium ... the miner accidentally set it on fire and shut himself down!

      I used their topo maps to find local mines and my 4x4 made it easier to get to them. I have stories about some of those trips... good thing I did them when I was younger and more foolish.

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • April 8, 2018 12:06 PM EDT
      • Highland, Maryland
         
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      Jim Rowson said:

      Hey Cliff, another question. Why does the chute empty out on the "clear" side of the retaining wall? Am I just not getting it? I would have expected the chute to empty onto a pile. What's the retaining wall for?

       

      Hi Jim,

       

      Great questions. Though a photo of that side hasn't turn up that I'm aware of, here's the reasoning...

       

      The bin was for accumulating sample ore from the H&N during a period of low production (say, early 1880's). The V&T took up their track for the main H&N bin during this time, since A) the H&N wasn't shipping much ore and B) the V&T's owners, having their own mines and mills, were competitors of the H&N's owners. BUT, the H&N was hopeful for a next nice ore body ("bonanza"), so they kept digging, and stored samples of possible pay dirt. That's where this little bin came in. They had to ship those sample loads by wagon to a local mill for processing. So the chute and retaining wall form a loading point for the wagon.

       

      Thanks for asking,

      Cliff

       PS: I'm so sorry about that shooting, sheesh... But I'm so glad you weren't hurt!!

       

      This post was edited by Cliff Jennings at April 8, 2018 12:17 PM EDT
    • April 8, 2018 1:09 PM EDT
      • Centennial, Colorado
         
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      WOW!  One of the best G buildings I've ever seen. And THE best ever mine building.  SWEET!

       

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