OK guys, Mik 2018 is in the record books, and we all have had a few days to re-gain our breaths.

Being the instigator of the Mik, I have been following all the builds, and paying attention to what was going on , even if it was at 0230hs in the night. So with that in mind I have a few rambling thought from this years build.

Rule #1 must be obeyed! Trying to keep the challenge fresh and exciting, and Challenging is a challenge in it’s own rite, AND trying to stay true to the Mik’s origin.

Believe it or not, next year will be the 10th anniversary of the Mik Challenges. I have a “Throw Back” idea for next year. After getting a idea or two from a couple of this years builds, I think that I have a winner for next years Challenge that will be true to Mik. ( no solo cups )

Thanks for all the accolades. But I do the Mik, as my way of giving back to the LSC family. I feel that if you are going to be a part of an organization then you need to be a contributor and not just a leach. We all need to contribute in our own way to keep LSC the GREAT place that we all love.

It became very obvious early on that my calculations for the amount of 2x4 you could use, may have been too restrictive. Either I under estimated what would make useful builds, or most everyone overzealously thought to grandiose. Your thoughts or comments?

I clearly didn’t think thru about all the “Other” stuff needed to make a build work, i.e., roofing, doors, windows, siding and ect. I did have an advantage with all the leftovers from other challenges. All this adds to the price of the builds. So is the $30.00 point to restrictive, or about right? Remember though that the original challenges were $10.00 limited.

I’ll also entertain Ideas on future challenge ideas, OH! What are the populist thought on… Structures, verses Rolling Stock, for the themes?

Do the “Kits” that I have sent out in the past work for a theme base? And would a shipping cost on them be a no starter for a number of players?

ANY other thoughts and ideas about the future challenges? Here is the “Soap Box” guys… Lets hear from you.

Dave

Very timely. I was going to start a thread like this to address a couple of ideas.

…and hitting the post button before writing them out was not one of them. Sorry, will expand on this shortly.

---

Okay I have been overtaken by events. Several members have already voiced my opinion in this thread and others. We have gotten away from the simple low tech creativity that Mik was known for. I fully acknowledge my part in this. A lot of members do not have the tools or desire to jam out a fine-scale, rivet counter special. Many do not want the high stress competition. And I question whether or not prizes /ribbons are sending it further down this path rather than encouraging participation which was the intent.

Lets say I could be “King for a Day” and design what I think would be best:

We need two different build challenges (and I like the word challenge over contest) rather than 2 different categories.

The first should be to return “Mik’s” to its original form. I mean ultra orthodox Mik. No starter parts and only a $10 limit. The emphasis would be on what can you make from your recycled trash. It might even include a rule that you have to use a washing machine for a work bench…(that’s a joke people). It should be funny, whimsical and creative. Logs should include all the good nature ribbing we have now. I also think it should have the Napkin Drawing. Even though that is a new addition, we all created that together and it fits very well with rule #1.

So where does that leave us over-obsessed rivet estimators (I am not prototypical enough to be a rivet counter)?

Introducing the “Annual LSC Model Contest” (see this is where that belongs). Held in mid summer with a mostly different set of rules.

Rule #1 still applies.

Each year a specific category would be announced. Service facility, retail outlet, factory, passenger car, MOW, etc… Rather than start with “this” and build something it would be directive toward the end product.

A detailed build log in the Articles section would be required, a separate comments log could be located elsewhere.

All entrants would build a scale model with as much detail as they can muster. Research, concept, accuracy, etc would be factors in voting.

No dollar limit or requirements as to kit-bash or scratch built. LSC members are plenty sophisticated and experienced enough to give credit for effort applied.

A longer build time would be needed. Announce the category/start in May with a finish time at the end of August. (items would have to be built within these inclusive dates not pre-existing).

Winner determined by popular vote as that seems to be working. We could try committee or a directed ballot like what the NMRA uses.

The only category would be “Best of Show” only. No other places.

Prize: BD could give the winner a reserved parking place in chat or lock their build log to the top of the home page for the year. Entrants could pony up a fee that goes to the winner (although that is kind of like betting). Maybe one of the advertisers would offer a gift certificate. Or nothing other than bragging rights.

One other thought that effects prizes and a starting item. If you have not mailed anything in the last 6 months you are probably unaware that the USPS has raised its prices (twice) totaling %55 since last September. Ground shipment is gone, replaced by “First Class Parcel Service” and there is now a 4 ounce minimum for any package thicker than a flat letter. Last year I mailed items for 1.75. It now costs 3.50. That means if Dave mails out 20 little doors he is shucking out $70 in just postage. If that isn’t bad enough the Post Office has petitioned congress for unrestricted postal rates effective July of this year. Get ready to grab your socks because our idiot Post Master General has already said she intends to implement a %25 across the board rate hike.

There is also the cost of producing the items. The doors probably have about $1 in materials (because you have to cover the RTV not just the resin). If Dave makes 20 and has even minimal miscellaneous supplies he is now pushing $100 a year with postage.

This means that if you want a starter item are you willing to pay $8-10 to cover costs?

Sorry if I sound terse, but Dave is just too nice of a guy to be this blunt. I appreciate that his parts make a nice kick-start but it is not fair to expect him to bankroll the challenge and do all the work. (yes I know some have given him a few bucks)

Creak … Sonny give me a hand up here…

Ya done good in my book. It’s tough to suggest shop work and expect equal kerfs…

We’ve been pretty good on the honor roll and I was happy some went beyond to complete their visions.

I do think with our expanding size that we should consider 2 top categories: the Folk Art of Mik and the Fine Scale Modeling we continue to see.

$30 for the Folk art side and what ever extra the fine scalers can get by vote from the whole.

and a muzzle for Devon!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

I unfortunately ran into many obstacles to complete this years build. Once I got started, I was also not happy with the route it was headed. I think you (Dave) do a great job on coordinating this contest; even to the point where you will make ruling to help participants out while keeping with the theme of the build.

That being said, I have an idea for a future contest. Kitbash a piece of rolling stock into something where it is no longer used as rolling stock. Keep the $30 limit, but don’t require a purchase of rolling stock (or RS parts) to be part of that $30.

Looking forward to next year.

Chris

and a muzzle for Devon!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

LOL

My idea was probably too grandiose for the time-frame given. But coming down with pneumonia took me right out of the race.

I do think that maybe we do need to categories, fine scale and running quality. Fine details will be quickly lost on anything I leave outside, and for rolling stock that gets handled each time its run.

The kits, or single starting piece, I think was a great idea, although its more work for you. It does start the race from the same point for all of us.

Weather its a building, or rolling stock, I am pretty sure that whatever the challenge, it will get my off my behind to build something on my “someday” list.

Dave, I think you are doing a great job, and a fitting way to keep Mik’s memory alive. Keep up the good work, and hopefully I won’t get ill next year.

Dave,

I never had the pleasure of participating in a build challenge while Mik was running them. But I did lurk over at the other site for one and looked into others. I came here to LSC thanks to John C informing me this was the home of the challenge now. I loved the idea of a “build something on the cheap with what’s around”. I have often thought it would be fun to see what people coild do with a toilet paper roll.

With that said i don’t mind “some” evolution such as the kits or a small increase I budget. Doing away with all the awards was the best move and just a simplified version we have now is better.

With that said i don’t mind doing it Dave’s way as lomg.as it is accessible everyone and as basic as can be. I say keep.doing what your doung. I doubt wry many others would participate if it was different and those of us doing it now don’t seem to mind.

I also agree that we need to be a part of it. Solid at ever you want a break or a partner, just ask, I will help where i can. O look forward to this every year.

John Caughey said:

Creak … Sonny give me a hand up here…

Ya done good in my book. It’s tough to suggest shop work and expect equal kerfs…

We’ve been pretty good on the honor roll and I was happy some went beyond to complete their visions.

I do think with our expanding size that we should consider 2 top categories: the Folk Art of Mik and the Fine Scale Modeling we continue to see.

$30 for the Folk art side and what ever extra the fine scalers can get by vote from the whole.

and a muzzle for Devon!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

Hey my mouth piece got at least two to join. And nothing not even brain surgery will.stop.me from riding your donkey.

Just put all your thoughts on a post it note and stick it to the fridge ? Dave will handle it in the morning after he makes everyone breakfast.

Devon Sinsley said:

John Caughey said:

Creak … Sonny give me a hand up here…

Ya done good in my book. It’s tough to suggest shop work and expect equal kerfs…

We’ve been pretty good on the honor roll and I was happy some went beyond to complete their visions.

I do think with our expanding size that we should consider 2 top categories: the Folk Art of Mik and the Fine Scale Modeling we continue to see.

$30 for the Folk art side and what ever extra the fine scalers can get by vote from the whole.

and a muzzle for Devon!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

Hey my mouth piece got at least two to join. And nothing not even brain surgery will.stop.me from riding your donkey.

yada yada yada (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)My brachoscopy is tomorrow, they’re going try to pop open my collapsed right middle lung lobe! Yeah! Giddy-up! Wheeeeeze

You don’t need no stinking Dr. for that. Easy breezy, Fire up the old compressor, set the PSI to 90, Stick the Blower nozzle in the pie hole, Hold your nose, and squeeze the trigger, Just like a balloon!

FROOOOOP! and your all better.

I really enjoy the Build Challenge both participating and seeing what others come up with. My first entry was in 2012 when we were tasked to finish something that we had started.

Those were humble and simple times and boy has the talent and imaginations surfaced since then. The skill that is shown from members on this forum is truly amazing and their examples have inspired myself and others to stretch our own creative and crafty muscles.

Over the years of the challenges we have all constructed amazing things that are very personal to our particular RR themes and we have shared the how to in photo logs that often inspire others to try a new technique or polish up on an old one. I know I have learned many new things from you guys and the inspiration has pushed me to build some really cool things that I am very proud of.

I think Mik’s build challenge is terrific and it comes at the perfect time of year for many of us to help fight off the Winter blues.

I have always liked the idea of starting from the same item such as a door, tin panels or a length of 2x4 and then the imaginations take over. If the challenge was more regulated with a “you must build X” then I don’t think we would have as many participants because what if someone didn’t want “X” for their RR. Keeping the theme open with general guidelines and a similar starting point lets everyone build pretty much what they want. I know this years challenge had me deciding between 2 builds that have been bouncing around in my brain for a bit.

The $30 limit is a good limit and most of us never even get close to it so I would say keep that the same.

I do think that we should be willing to at least kick in the cost of postage for anything that Dave T ships out to us and a couple extra bucks wouldn’t hurt.

This cost could be considered the entry fee and would not count towards the $30 total.

Getting back to the roots of Mik for next year… If I understand what Mik brought to the hobby it was a passion to have fun while building cool interesting stuff from junk and inspiring others to expand their own skills and of course suggesting that we never take our hobby our ourselves too seriously.

As far as the structures V. rolling stock theme I think the builds are more diverse when we have built structures. I say we keep the choice open but since we have had mostly challenges that had us building buildings maybe we should have one next year that requires something to ride the rails?

We could go back to the roots of the challenge and actually use some junk, recycled parts, something found at the thrift store and repurposed or how about we all start with a can of soup?

Imagine all the stuff you could build by using a Campbells soup can as a start.

We have lots of time until next year and lots of ideas to share and I’m sure Dave will surprise us as he always does.

I have entered a project in the Challenge for the last three years and have certainly applied Rule #1 to each build. I did not have the pleasure of knowing Mik, but from what I have learned from those who did, he built what he wanted/needed from what he had. He would take an item(s) in his junk bin and turn them into something useful for his RR. I believe the Challenge has stayed relatively true to Mik’s way of thinking. Now we probably get a little more on the fine scale side of the hobby than Mik would, but that is the beauty of it. Each individual puts their own creativity into it, which is, from what little I know about Mik, exactly what he was doing.

I like the current format of the challenge, but I am ok with changes as long as we can maintain the individuality of the builds. I think Todd is correct that we probably would not have as many participants if you were given a specific structure or rolling stock to build. We all model different RR in different era’s.Part of the challenge of the Challenge is trying to figure out what to build that I want or need with the resources we are given. I am certainly open to additional but different challenges as Boomer suggested. It would get me off my rear to build other structures or rolling stock that I will need. Maybe even have a challenge to add a new industry, depot, etc to the RR including the additional rail to serve it. That would definitely get me moving.

I do think we should reimburse Dave for his out of pocket expenses when he provides the starting kit.

All,

For what it is worth, the very openness of this challenge is why we even weighed in. Postage for me is a killer. Tropical rot is a fact. Kid-zilla will get older, but his friends will be clueless, assuming they follow the pattern of his siblings friends. The fact that the contest allowed for us - for ME - to use anything and everything I could scrape from local items - scrap wood, tongue depressors, two year olds, etc. - made it possible. Then I - and really WE - got to see what others could do with the right tools and thought processes. For me, this enters into my calculations for “what next?” as I try to keep the Triple O relative to the family. For the crew, the craftsmen who turned 2x4s into art found inspiration. An open, fun contest that shows the possible and encourages the beginner or funds, space, time, etc… limited like this one is what you should strive to maintain. I will tell you that you not only got a middle aged guy to reaccess long retired model skills, you inspired the next generation, not just as hobbyists, but as engineers and architects and dreamers. How many nine year old girls actually pause when you ask them if we should buy a live steam locomotive or take a family trip? How many other hobby efforts lead to discussions on indigenous construction techniques and social organization? This one did. Thanks.

Anyway, wherever you take this contest, please, please, please let it start with something simple - rocks, boards, fenders, whatever - with a nominal budget and let the imaginations and craftsmanship unfold as they may and as time, tools, and resources allow. As long as the attitude remains positive, your work will travel far beyond your place and time.

Aloha,

Eric

Dave Taylor said:

Believe it or not, next year will be the 10th anniversary of the Mik Challenges.

I clearly didn’t think thru about all the “Other” stuff needed to make a build work, i.e., roofing, doors, windows, siding and ect. I did have an advantage with all the leftovers from other challenges. All this adds to the price of the builds. So is the $30.00 point to restrictive, or about right? Remember though that the original challenges were $10.00 limited.

Do the “Kits” that I have sent out in the past work for a theme base? And would a shipping cost on them be a no starter for a number of players?

ANY other thoughts and ideas about the future challenges? Here is the “Soap Box” guys… Lets hear from you.

the tenth?? are you sure?

i remember, that we had two challenges in 2010, and from 2011 on one per year. (in 2010 i made a roling outhouse, and on the hotel from 2011 i’m still working…)

if we take in acount, that a dollar now buys about half, of what it bought ten years ago, i think, 30 is not too much.

for me personally the “Kits” do not work. not because of the remarkable US-postage fees, but because of the snail mail. two to three weeks for some package from the states are normal. meaning, that i would get the “Kit”, when the challenge is over.

but i think, for the grand majority it is a good idea.

some words to Mik:

when he started the challenges the forums were different.

it was the time when the forums were dominated by postings from cheque-book-modellers (“look what i bought!” five identical locos - “look, what Santa brought!” fifty identical coal hoppers) and by arrogant people, who worked for or with the manufacturers. salted by some real artesans (like this one http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/28036/-/post-create/quote_id/359450 ) whoose works were so far from “buyable” stuff, that it was admired. or storytellers, like the guy, who told us about the toenail ridge railroad, or the other guy with his “Shroom” stories.

some specialists like George Shreyer and Stan Cedarleaf were in high esteem also.

but normal guys, building something themselves? buh, that was something to look down upon. (if it was not something really new, like Richard Schmitt’s “tabletop” railway in the woods)

in those times somebody who built houses, instead of buying pico buildings for a 100 bucks a piece or more, was thought by many to be too poor for the hobby.

and then came Mik! not Saint Mik, but Mik, just Mik. poor as… well, trailer-living poor. five yards of R1 curves and straights, one or two locos, a handfull of cars, and lots of fun with it.

he was a genius, but a sloppy genius. When he had an idea, he found some junk for it, when he had some junk, he found an idea for it. and then he built. very quick. most of his building time went into waiting for some glue to dry. his buildings were all “ten footers” where blobs of glue were visible in the pics, where things were eyesight-square and so on. (did not find any pics to make my point. anybody?) i suspect, he built so quick, to have more time for his other hobby, brushing rust from old 1:1 steam tractors.

but he, together with some other guys like Ray Dunakin, hollywood and rooster made us “poor guys” or better normal guys try to build, and more important, show off, what we built.

so, although we long did outperform Mik’s quality, we did not outperform his spirit. and we shouldn’t.

meaning, no, we should not try to go back to the simple beginnings, but we should keep the spirit using our actual skills.

Well said, Mr Kormsen!

While I don’t participate in the challenge, due to other pots on the fire, I sure do enjoy watching the builds come together.

Lots of talented, imaginative people on here. Well done, gentleman (and I use that term loosely…(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif) )

January 10, 2012 1:45 PM EST Share Thank Add reputation Report
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Since Shawn said he can’t/won’t, here it is:

These choices subject to $30 limit:
-FINISH a project that has been back-burnered for at least 6 months (like your hotel from last time, Korm!).
-‘Build’ a ‘set’ from your leftovers (any scale) and GIVE it to a child who’s shown interest in trains. (with pictures of the child receiving it, no fakes!)
-Build a camera car, and then film your layout with it.(MUST post the vid! - I allowed extra on this in case you needed metal wheels or a cheap used camera)

$20 limit on these:
-Build a rail customer structure/complex. (served industry)
-Modify, detail and weather a piece of rolling stock to match a specific prototype photo.
-Put together a mini scene that tells a story from your childhood.

No those aren’t easy topics, but youse guys wanted a “challenge”.
Since we started late, the challenge period ends Midnight Pacific time on is Sunday, February 12, giving you 33 days.

Standard challenge rules apply - If you already have it in your possession as of noon local time today, can trade for it, or outright mooch it, it’s “free”. Scrounged items count as ‘free’, but outright theft of them is strongly discouraged (ie, ASK!) If you have to buy it, the exact dollar amount (less tax and shipping) costs against your kitty. We’ll also exclude the cost 1 tube of glue, 1 jar of paint, and a pack of fresh hobby knife blades - should you need those.

Ready! Set! Procastin… err, Build!

(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

The challange is one of the things i like best about LSC. I have cretainly learned a lot and expanded my skills doing them over the years. My first was the flatcar kit challange…moose. tin, stone and two by four. All fun. What others have done, inspirational! They can be the instigator for building something crazy that you never knew you needed or something straight and serious and just what you needed…all are great.

The genius of Mik and now Dave is the broad requirements which allow for all kinds of projects.

I like the “kit of parts” projects. If they get too pricy to supply, or are too hard to supply perhaps suggest a common item as inspiration something like “use an old door knob” or “start with a ball of yarn”…of course that is exactly what we did this year with our 2x4s. I suppose the odder the starting object the more whimsical the projects we might see.

Hey its a lot of fun!

At least for me Korm (and others) have encompassed what the challenge is to me. We appreciate a stairway to heaven and a kick butt oil derrick as much as we appreciate an ore bin made from a piece of pressure treated 2X4 and stuck in a pot. All are welcome and all are encouraged for their own merit. And we even have some good natured ribbing (John C., I hope you know its good natured) to go with it. If you want to build a master piece build one if you don’t don’t. But participate, have fun, push your personal limits, and enjoy sharing a hobby that for must of us doesn’t get but a small support from others.

Do whatever you want with the challenge as long as it stays fun and accessible. there have been some cool ideas tossed about that I know I would love to take on (turning a piece of rolling stock into a static thing, railroads actually do this ya know). I really love the build it and give it to a kid idea. Not sure who that would be in my life but maybe that would be the challenge. Whatever we do, lets keep it what Mik, based on Korm’s description, wanted by keeping it so dead cheap and simple and broad that anyone who chooses can do it and be welcome. I think we have that, and this years challenge was genius along those lines.

This was my first time in the challenge and I absolutely loved it. I had the opportunity to build something that I had long wanted to and I was forced (gently) to get it done quickly. I tried new things, experimented a little, but, most important, Rule No. 1 was followed to the letter!

I liked the freedom to build what I wanted/needed but I also liked the idea of starting with a common item, like a 2 x 4. The 30 days and $30 seemed fine, too.

One thing that I noticed was the interest my non-rr friends took when I explained the simple, easy-for-an-outsider to understand rules – 30 days, 30 dollars, and a 2 x 4. My wife started telling her friends, my neighbor came over to watch filming of the totally unplanned, random, catastrophic “accident,” and even my lawyer got involved and in a good way! I suspect other participants experienced the same thing and that is an extra bonus for us all.

Gregory Hile said:

One thing that I noticed was the interest my non-rr friends took when I explained the simple, easy-for-an-outsider to understand rules – 30 days, 30 dollars, and a 2 x 4.

Every year I post my progress on my Facebook page. I have as many people following there as I do on here. In our society today, i do think there are to many hobbies that allow for something like this. It always seems to be a money game. And the pureness of this is cool that even people who don’t share my interest like the idea.