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  • Topic: Revolution/Phoenix/USATrains/Piko, oh my this gets confusing!

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    • June 16, 2017 10:02 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
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      You admitted early that your yard is too small, good luck.

       

      Big mainline engines on 4' r. curves exist in smaller scales...

      Start with an Aristocraft 0-4-0 w/ a tender and a small loop. Buy a closeout loco  and see if your particulars can adjust to your physical limitation.

       

      Worry about the other stuff if it matters, if you can't adjust to the small curve limitations, the rest don't matter.

      Many use a following car for batteries, sound card and controller. I do. I'm in the Sonoran Desert and all trains have canteen cars with extra water. So room is no problem. I've seen canteen cars on some Canadian trains too. It's a thought.

       

      John

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • June 16, 2017 10:11 PM EDT

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      Yes that is why I concede that the steam portion may be a non-starter since I cannot attain what I would want to see.  As such the whole idea would need to be re-evaluated for what I could do and decide if it is enough.   I think I can do 10' dia curves for all the modern stuff.  I just cannot do it where I want the electric steam to be.  Still weighing how things could be changed to make something work.

      Bart

    • June 16, 2017 10:19 PM EDT

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      what's the minimum diameter for your "steam" track?

      Maybe post some pictures of where you are going to do this?

      The Aristo Pacific will take pretty sharp curves...

       

      Greg

      ____________________________________

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    • June 16, 2017 10:23 PM EDT

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      Five foot dia. is all I can do.  I am working on photos and a plan view to post once I can show some ideas I am working on.

       

      Bart

    • June 17, 2017 7:48 AM EDT
      • Eastern Massachusetts
         
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      All the LGB locos will take 4 foot diameter track., but the shorter the wheel base the better they look, and also the shorter 2 axle cars look good.

      I like the HLW kit cars and the LGB FRR cars for this and pull them with the LGB porter or toy train engines.

    • June 17, 2017 9:47 AM EDT

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      What scale is LGB?  I'm thinking, if I remember correctly, not 1/29th.

      Bart

    • June 17, 2017 11:44 AM EDT
      • Nashville, IL
         
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      LGB basically has no set scale..  It depends on what item you are talking about to determine the actual scale..

    • June 18, 2017 7:44 AM EDT
      • Eastern Massachusetts
         
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      LGB's FRR line is some of the smallest rolling stock available in large scale.

       

      And scale is relative as 45mm track is the standard and 1/32 i is for 4 foot 8 1/2 inch models.   Narrow guage of 3 foot or even 2 foot on 45mm track gives large models thus a larger scale.  the older Berlin models were huge and heavy and at least 1/20.3

    • June 18, 2017 12:56 PM EDT

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      I just do not know how anything looks correct together when each has their own scale.  Something is always going to look too big or too small compared to the next.

      Bart

    • June 18, 2017 1:44 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
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      As long as you don't mix the extremes; 1:32 and 1:20.3 the rest play ok. The big discrepancy are the ladders and  coach doors.  If you altered the off size ladders to match your scale, then all can pass as correct. Too small doorways are harder to hide, so you'll learn to pass on them. Unless you keep them in the background.

       

      LGB, as I understood it, was loosely based on Meter gauge, for it's narrow gauge equipment and 1:22.5 was used. In America 1:24 of Standard Gauge trains was 'close enough' to share the track.

      1:29 satisfied the American notion that our Standard ga. should be the biggest, tho' the gauge shrank some more.

      Then 1:20.3 with 15mm = 1' made narrow gauge bigger than Standard ...

       

      You are right it is complicated, so use the forum to find your way. Our number one rule is: Have fun.

       

      Happy Rails,

      John

       

       

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • June 18, 2017 2:37 PM EDT

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      Then it still boils down to the same problem. If my "modern" trains are USA Trains at 1/29 what is "close enough" that can still fit the tight radius and look like what I want it to look.  I am extremely particular.  I have come up blank on the magic solution. 

      Bart

    • June 18, 2017 2:51 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
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      Well, we will never know because you haven't shared your particulars, just that you have them.

      I'm back to Good Luck.

      John

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • June 18, 2017 3:43 PM EDT
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      Bart Busse said:

      Then it still boils down to the same problem. If my "modern" trains are USA Trains at 1/29 what is "close enough" that can still fit the tight radius and look like what I want it to look.  I am extremely particular.  I have come up blank on the magic solution. 

      Bart

      This problem is as old as Large Scale itself.  With the exception of some of the available 1:32 and a fair amount of the 1:20.3 products out there, the rest is a compromise in one way or another. If you are coming from one of the smaller proto scales, then you will continue to be frustrated with RTR large scale products. If you are a scale purist, then the best solution is to kitbash your way to what looks right to you.

       

      Most of us have learned to accept mixing of scales. I base my mix of 1:20.3 and 1:24 rolling stock on prototype pictures from when older small cars were being run with larger cars of the day. If you want to stick with modern era, the size discrepancy isn't as easy to pull off except in car height.

       

       

      Below the ATSF boxcar is 1:24, everything else is 1:20.3

       

      This post was edited by Jon Radder at June 18, 2017 4:12 PM EDT
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    • June 18, 2017 3:52 PM EDT

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      Yep, you have sort of painted yourself into a corner.

       

      In the "larger" scales, the only things that work together with diesels and steamers is probably LGB, which is not consistently true to one scale, and the diesels are often poorly proportioned, and not even the same scale in width, length, height.

       

      You state you are particular about scale, so my recommendation would be 1:32, and get MTH locos for your motive power. You can get a reasonable variety of diesels and nice steam, even up to a big boy and a challenger.  They are true to scale, can run on DCC, DC, and the proprietary MTH DCS system. In addition your minimum diameter is "larger" in 1:32 as compared to 1:20.3.

       

      BUT! I'm sure your next post will indicate they are too expensive.

       

      Often in engineering we are asked to do the impossible. A common response is cost, schedule, and quality, pick TWO of the 3.

       

      You are NOT going to get:

      • adherence to scale
      • inexpensive
      • works on 5 foot diameter

      All at the same time...

       

      again pick 2 of the 3 above. (or find a way to increase your minimum diameter)

       

      Greg

      This post was edited by Greg Elmassian at June 18, 2017 3:54 PM EDT
      ____________________________________

      Be sure­ to visit ­my site, l­ots of tec­hnical tip­s and modi­fications,­ and you c­an search ­for topics­ and key w­ords.


      ­Click HERE for Greg­'s web sit­e
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    • June 18, 2017 4:29 PM EDT

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      Yes  I do not think I can do anything abut the steam side of things anymore.  Currently not able to balance scale/price/look against the whole.  Will need to step back and decide if there is another direction.  Bart
      Greg Elmassian said:

      Yep, you have sort of painted yourself into a corner...

      Greg

       

    • June 19, 2017 1:30 PM EDT

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      More than just the steam side Bart, at 5 foot diameter, you are going to be pressed for diesels too.

      Even 1:29 F units from USA Trains won't like those curves.

      I am really trying to help you, but you cannot have everything you want, you have to "give" in some area.

      To repeat:

      • adherence to scale
      • inexpensive
      • works on 5 foot diameter

      pick 2 of the 3 above

       

      • If you throw out cost, you have MTH as a great alternative in 1:32.
      • If you throw out 5 foot diameter (get to at least 8) then you have USA Trains and Aristo in 1:29.
      • If you throw out adherence to scale, then you have LGB in "gummy" scale... about 1:26 with some concessions on length.

       

      AND you get mainline steam and diesel...

       

      That's really your alternatives given the restrictions you have given here.

       

      If anyone sees a flaw in this logic, chime in. I'm trying to help and un-confuse the issue with logic.

       

      Greg

      This post was edited by Greg Elmassian at June 19, 2017 1:34 PM EDT
      ____________________________________

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      ­Click HERE for Greg­'s web sit­e
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    • June 19, 2017 1:58 PM EDT
      • Santa Ana, CA
         
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      If you run point-to-point, you may be able to get larger diameter curves in yours available space because they don't need to "complete the loop."

    • June 19, 2017 2:45 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
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      Speed readers: The Dismal side has 8 -10' D curves, the steam loco section has the limitation.

      No cross pollinating!

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • June 19, 2017 3:23 PM EDT

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      I was under the impression he wanted the same scale for the diesel and the steam.

      Maybe that is the key, USA / Aristo for the dismals in 1:29, and some narrow gauge? It seemed that he wanted mainline steam, not small steam though.

       1:20.3 in K series Mikados won't make it.

      Greg

      This post was edited by Greg Elmassian at June 19, 2017 3:25 PM EDT
      ____________________________________

      Be sure­ to visit ­my site, l­ots of tec­hnical tip­s and modi­fications,­ and you c­an search ­for topics­ and key w­ords.


      ­Click HERE for Greg­'s web sit­e
      PLEASE NOT­E: Please do NOT use private messaging, i­f you have­ a questio­n, feel fr­ee to emai­l me priva­tely, u­se regular­ email onl­y: greg@el­massian.co­m

    • June 19, 2017 7:37 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
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      Same scale I think yes. The dismal will operate in one part of his yard with 10'D curvesand he wants to put steamers where only switchers will fit on 5'D.... BUT switchers won't appease his sensibilities.  Hudsons and northerns on tiptoe, methinks. Think the USA Hudson will make it?

      Remember he has never said what he wants, just that he is picky. Without telling us/me, my game ends here. No guessing for me. Should he impart with his wants then we can try to make suggestions. A selfish game, we know a little about what he doesn't want ...

       

      John

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

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