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    • March 11, 2017 3:20 PM EST

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      Kadee draft gear box dimensions.

      Hey everyone,

      im trying to find the outer dimensions of certain Kadee large-scale coupler boxes..

      Kadee doesnt seem to have the dimensions on their site, and I cant find them anywhere else on the internet..

      Im trying to see if any couplers will fit in the USA Trains reefer coupler pocket:

       

       

      With only minor changes to the car..I imagine the reefer coupler pocket will need to be enlarged, because I dont think any Kadee boxes will slide in as-is, but there is a range of Kadee coupler box dimensions, so I want to see if we can gather them all together in this thread, for reference.

       

      The boxes are the same for both the "G-scale" couplers, and the slightly smaller "#1 scale" couplers..the boxes are the same either way.

       

      Im looking for the outer dimensions of the main body of the box, *not* counting that little "lip" some of them have on the front, and not counting the decorative rivets..those can just be filed flat, and aren't an integral part of the main box height. here is the list from the Kadee site:

       

      https://kadee.com/~kadeecom/htmbord/1gcouplers.htm

       

      ____________________________________________________________________________________

      Standard Gear Box

      (830 type)

      L: 30mm

      W: width of main box, 19mm. Overall width including the side screw hole protrusions: 22mm

      H: 8mm (not counting the top "lip" extension)

       

       

      ____________________________________________________________________________________

      Truck Mount Gear Box

      (831 type)

      L:

      W:

      H:

       

       

      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      Short Gear Box

      (835 type)

      L:

      W:

      H:

       

       

      ______________________________________________________________________________________

      Extra Short Gear Box

      (821 type)

      (not counting the "lip" at the front-top of the gearbox)

      L:

      W:

      H:

       

       

      _______________________________________________________________________________________

      Pilot Pocket

      (791 type)

      For this one, im interested in the dimensions at the *front* of the gearbox! ;)

      could it perhaps be slid into the back of a car coupler pocket opening?

      thats not the "standard" use for the coupler, but it could perhaps be adapted to other uses.

      L:

      W:

      H:

       

      ______________________________________________________________________________________

      thanks!

      Scot

       

      I will edit this post and update with the dimensions as people provide them..

      so if you have any of these you can measure, please do! :)

      thanks,

      Scot

      This post was edited by Scot Lawrence at March 11, 2017 3:30 PM EST
    • March 11, 2017 4:42 PM EST
      • West Grove, Pennsylvania
         
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      You'll probably be better off cutting the coupler box that's on the car flush with the bottom of the car and using the 830. The shank of the coupler won't be long enough to fit all the way through what's on the boxcar.................JMHO...................

      ____________________________________

      "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --Martin Luther King Jr

    • March 11, 2017 4:51 PM EST

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      Maybe..but I first want to see if I can fit a Kadee without totally removing the built-in opening.. I did get one to fit, but only by losing the centering ability, so that not ideal..so im looking for other options, but first, I need to know draft gear box dimensions.

       

      Thanks,

      Scot

      This post was edited by Scot Lawrence at March 11, 2017 4:51 PM EST
    • March 11, 2017 6:43 PM EST
      • Nepean/Ottawa, Ontario, The Dominion of Canada
         
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      There is no Kadee or any other dependable knuckle coupler that will mount properly using that "Opening" that you insist on trying to use.

      Which size of Kadee coupler do you use ?

      The best way is to bite the bullet and do some simple cutting, and get it over with.

      If you are going to use the Kadee #1 scale coupler; the best one to use is the original 820/920, or the new and improved 1906/1905R.

      Using the coupler box, simply hold it in place then mark the vertical cuts. cut as far as the top of the opening, leaving the top part, above the opening in place.

      Next; remove the under frame, and cut off the end part cutting right at the bolster. Replace the under frame, making sure it is tight to the bottom of the body shell.

      using the Kadee coupler gauge; note  that the correct height is about dead on with the top of the "Opening".  (You might need to use a sharp file to get the height dead on)  Use the file to clean up your cuts.

      Using Styrene, make up shims  to build up the space where the coupler draft gear box is to be located, remembering that the front of the box and its "Lip" are flush against the outside of the opening. Don't skimp on the size of the shims.

      scrape the bottom of the car where the shims will be located, to remove most of the paint. Using lacquer thinner, or MEK as a "Welding agent, weld the needed shims up to the needed level as indicated by the end of the Kadee coupler gauge. Allow the welds to cure.

      Using an appropriate drill size, and the coupler draft gear box as your guide, drill two holes The centre and end holes are all you need.

      Paint the shims with an appropriate colour, and let dry.

      Assemble the couplers, and using the kadee screws, attach to the car.

        PLEASE NOTE...when using the kadee coupler gauge, make sure the car body is sitting on the trucks. You don't need to screw them on, just sit the car on its trucks when checking the heights, to be sure.

      As far as the trucks are concerned; all you need do is take them apart, and cut the coupler arms off flush with the truck bolster; check your back-to-back wheel spacing, lightly lubricate and reassemble.

      A Zona saw, a chisel,and  a regular blade Exacto knife are needed.  MAKE DARNED SURE THE BLADES ARE SHARP. You are more likely to cut yourself with a dull blade.  A Pinvice is handy for drilling the holes.

      Many people use other methods, and seem to make it more complicated. This is just the way I have converted many many of these USTrains reefers and box cars.  The end result is neat, and looks very prototypical. Others may disagree.....and swear by other methods.....use the method you prefer.

       Fred Mills

    • March 11, 2017 7:50 PM EST
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      I threw in the towel and said "Eff it". Even the cars I had started putting #831 truck-mounted Kadee's on back in the 90's, I took off and reverted back to the original hook & loop couplers. So I'm crazy. After thinking long and hard about converting to #830 or #1 body-mounted couplers on all my USA Trains and LGB reefers, I finally concluded that I just don't want to modify (cut up) the ends of the cars to install the body-mount couplers. I would love to have the functionality and aesthetics/realism of Kadee couplers on all of my engines and rolling stock, but I just don't have the time and resources to do it.

       

      I'm truly amazed that nobody, including USA Trains or Kadee, has ever marketed a kit consisting of a pair of "G" or #1 style couplers with gearbox, two screws, a prefabricated square mounting pad cut the right thickness with two threaded holes to accommodate the screws, thin plastic shims (to be used if necessary) cut the same width/length as the gearbox to give couplers the perfect height to the Kadee coupler gauge, and maybe even a plastic template for aligning the gearbox to the underside of the car body prior to gluing. Then all you would have to do is cut the hell off the end of the car body and there should even be a template for that. After paying on the average of $100 - $150 for some of my beer reefers, I can't bring myself to do it. I've just settled on installing metal wheels on 'em and calling it a day.

       

    • March 11, 2017 8:39 PM EST
      • Nepean/Ottawa, Ontario, The Dominion of Canada
         
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      After doing one or two, it goes very smoothly....I just finished converting 2 dozen of them for a guy out West....he paid for the couplers, and arranged the transport.  He slipped me a case of bheer or two, and a Walmart gift card...... took me about two weeks of leasurely working on them...he says he is very pleased with the way they look.

        I started converting this type of USTrains car, years ago. Just part of being a model railroader in LS.

       

    • March 12, 2017 1:23 PM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      Fred Mills, BSc, (Sd, ss) said:

      .....and arranged the transport.  

       

      That's the hard part. Shipping 50 train cars to Canada from the Bay Area. Not only the cost, but trusting that the cars will go and come back to me in one piece after USPS gets hold of them.

      If you're ever in the Bay Area, you can stay at my place, Fred! You'll have a great 2 weeks vacation here. 

       

       

       

    • March 12, 2017 7:20 PM EDT

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      A great thread from March 1st on MLS:

       

      http://forums.mylargescale.com/29-beginner-s-forum/77425-kadee-couplers-usat-woodside-reefers.html

       

      The exact answer to your question.

       

      Greg

      ____________________________________

      Be sure­ to visit ­my site, l­ots of tec­hnical tip­s and modi­fications,­ and you c­an search ­for topics­ and key w­ords.


      ­Click HERE for Greg­'s web sit­e
      PLEASE NOT­E: Please do NOT use private messaging, i­f you have­ a questio­n, feel fr­ee to emai­l me priva­tely, u­se regular­ email onl­y: greg@el­massian.co­m

    • March 12, 2017 10:07 PM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      Greg Elmassian said:

      A great thread from March 1st on MLS:

       

      http://forums.mylargescale.com/29-beginner-s-forum/77425-kadee-couplers-usat-woodside-reefers.html

       

      The exact answer to your question.

       

      Greg

       

      Greg, I don't believe I'd go that route to convert the older USA Trains and LGB reefers to Kadee Couplers. The best solutions I have seen are from a tutorial that a member of this board, Don Watson, prepared and sent to me last year. Also a good one from Steve in the Freight Shed to convert the LGB cars. I think Fred does his conversions pretty much the same way.  

       

      This post was edited by Michael Kirrene at March 12, 2017 10:09 PM EDT
    • March 12, 2017 10:50 PM EDT

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      Greg Elmassian said:

      A great thread from March 1st on MLS:

       

      http://forums.mylargescale.com/29-beginner-s-forum/77425-kadee-couplers-usat-woodside-reefers.html

       

      The exact answer to your question.

       

      Greg

      Greg,

      The exact answer to who's question? And what question?

      Thanks,

      Scot

    • March 12, 2017 11:05 PM EDT

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      HUH?

      First post by the OP:

      Hey everyone,

      im trying to find the outer dimensions of certain Kadee large-scale coupler boxes..

      Kadee doesnt seem to have the dimensions on their site, and I cant find them anywhere else on the internet..

      Im trying to see if any couplers will fit in the USA Trains reefer coupler pocket:

       

      Scot, you were on this thread on MLS:

       

       

      Is not this a Kadee coupler box on a USAT reefer?

       

      Greg

      ____________________________________

      Be sure­ to visit ­my site, l­ots of tec­hnical tip­s and modi­fications,­ and you c­an search ­for topics­ and key w­ords.


      ­Click HERE for Greg­'s web sit­e
      PLEASE NOT­E: Please do NOT use private messaging, i­f you have­ a questio­n, feel fr­ee to emai­l me priva­tely, u­se regular­ email onl­y: greg@el­massian.co­m

    • March 12, 2017 11:38 PM EDT

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      Yes, I was on that thread..but it answers none of my questions in this thread! ;)

       

      Scot

    • March 12, 2017 11:55 PM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      Scot, did you not get your answers in this thread concerning body-mounting Kadee couplers? On the older USAT reefers, you have to cut the existing "pocket" off the end of the car, then use a styrene spacer (and maybe a shim or two) to build up the area on the underside end of the car to enable you to mount a Kadee coupler gearbox to the underframe. For newer USA trains cars, you don't have to do this, but for the older ones (like the Genesee reefer above) you have to cut the bottom of that molded pocket on the end of the car to accommodate a Kadee gear box. In other words, no Kadee coupler gear box/coupler exists that will fit inside the existing pocket on that particular car. 

    • March 13, 2017 12:21 AM EDT
      • Nepean/Ottawa, Ontario, The Dominion of Canada
         
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      Ok, OK, everyone....The question was, originally; "What are the dimensions of the Kadee Coupler, draft gear boxes". Pictures were posted, and much has been said about how to cut, and mount the couplers.

      Finally; I'll give the dimensions, as requested, and clear the air. I'm sitting here with a measuring stick in hand, and one of each size of draft gear box in hand.

       First, the #1 Scale box, as used with the 820/1906 couplers:  3/4"/19mm wide by 1 3/16"/3cm long, 1/4"/7.5mm thick.

       Second, the "G" Scale box, as used with the 830/906 couplers: 1"/25mm wide by 1 9/16"/4cm long, 3/8"/9mm thick.

      There you have it....now I hope everyone is happy and able to get on with life , with good fellowship.

      Michael; yes shipping would be costly, and I'm not really in business doing coupler conversions. I just do them for friends and usually just for people around here. It is sort of my way of contributing to the good feelings and fellowship that are part of this great hobby, here in the Ottawa Valley, and many other places. I also try to promote doing such conversions in a proper manner, that will enhance operation, and the prototypical looks of the rolling stock.  I believe that if you are going to do the job...do it properly, and learn modelling skills, or don't do it at all.

      Fred Mills

    • March 13, 2017 12:26 AM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      Fred Mills, BSc, (Sd, ss) said:

      I also try to promote doing such conversions in a proper manner, that will enhance operation, and the prototypical looks of the rolling stock.  I believe that if you are going to do the job...do it properly, and learn modelling skills, or don't do it at all.

      Fred Mills

       

      Completely agree with you there, Fred.  You're right on the mark.

       

    • March 13, 2017 12:32 AM EDT
      • Nepean/Ottawa, Ontario, The Dominion of Canada
         
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      BTW.... I just noticed that I have an LGB stock car sitting here waiting on a conversion. I've done many of them in the past, for myself and others....I had forgotten it, along with a B'mann Gramps tank car..... Someone mentioned converting them was much the same....

      I also think that there may be a bunch of USTrains UP reefers up in the attic, that I had forgotten. I had converted them many moons ago. I should get them down, and see if we have room for them in the NG operation. Too many cars....oh yes, believe it or not; you can have too many cars, and a type of gridlock can easily set in....!!

        Fred Mills

    • March 13, 2017 8:30 AM EDT

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      Michael Kirrene said:

      Scot, did you not get your answers in this thread concerning body-mounting Kadee couplers? On the older USAT reefers, you have to cut the existing "pocket" off the end of the car, then use a styrene spacer (and maybe a shim or two) to build up the area on the underside end of the car to enable you to mount a Kadee coupler gearbox to the underframe. For newer USA trains cars, you don't have to do this, but for the older ones (like the Genesee reefer above) you have to cut the bottom of that molded pocket on the end of the car to accommodate a Kadee gear box. In other words, no Kadee coupler gear box/coupler exists that will fit inside the existing pocket on that particular car. 

       

       

      Michael,

      No, I haven't received the answers I am looking for yet..

      The MLS thread answers nothing, and Fred *thinks* he has answered everything, but he has actually answered nothing that I have asked for. (and I could do without his snotty rude condescending attitude, but that's irrelevant) To try to get things back on track, here is what I would like to know..I will make a new post below.

      thanks,

      Scot

    • March 13, 2017 8:32 AM EDT

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      If anyone has dimensions for these gearboxes, i would appreciate it! (i already have the dimensions for the first one, i measured it myself, but im including it anyway for reference)

       

      Im looking for the outer dimensions of the main body of the box, *not* counting that little "lip" some of them have on the front, and not counting the decorative rivets..those can just be filed flat, and aren't an integral part of the main box height. here is the list from the Kadee site:

       

      https://kadee.com/~kadeecom/htmbord/1gcouplers.htm

       

      ____________________________________________________________________________________

      Standard Gear Box

      (830 type)

      L: 30mm

      W: width of main box, 19mm. Overall width including the side screw hole protrusions: 22mm

      H: 8mm (not counting the top "lip" extension)

       

       

      ____________________________________________________________________________________

      Truck Mount Gear Box

      (831 type)

      L:

      W:

      H:

       

       

      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      Short Gear Box

      (835 type)

      L:

      W:

      H:

       

       

      ______________________________________________________________________________________

      Extra Short Gear Box

      (821 type)

      (not counting the "lip" at the front-top of the gearbox)

      L:

      W:

      H:

       

       

      _______________________________________________________________________________________

      Pilot Pocket

      (791 type)

      For this one, im interested in the dimensions at the *front* of the gearbox! ;)

      could it perhaps be slid into the back of a car coupler pocket opening?

      thats not the "standard" use for the coupler, but it could perhaps be adapted to other uses.

      L:

      W:

      H:

       

      ______________________________________________________________________________________

      thanks!

      Scot

    • March 13, 2017 9:05 AM EDT

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      I've gone straight to the source, Kadee, and asked them! ;)

      (although if anyone still has a chance to measure their own couplers, that would still be helpful!)

      thanks,

      Scot

    • March 16, 2017 9:51 AM EDT
      • Kittery, ME
         
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      I was the OP on the related thread on MLS.  Just discovered this forum.  I have an 831 here, so I can contribute that.  

      L: 31 mm (the box itself is 14.3 mm)
      W: 20 mm
      H: 9.6 mm

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