This winter has got me thinking about a rotary snow plow. Seeing some photos of scratch built ones in action got me hooked. I decided I would give it a try and build my own to help with the snow clearing on the line. After looking at some designs, I found one of the old Southern Pacific rotary plows. I like the older ones because it will fit my late 1800 or so logging theme more and the car itself is wood. (shut up Rooster). I also decided to take it a step further and see if I can make it powered by live steam. I had a Regner micro motor and Midwest sterno boiler sitting around for a future tram project. Rather then build another tram I thought it would be neat to see if I can get the rotary to operate on live steam. I still have to play around with my option of using chain driven by sprockets or gear driven and what would be the best ratio. If it works out as planned, I will eventually replace the boiler with a better butane fired one and maybe a better motor down the line. Im also going to make it so I can use a battery powered motor for the deep snow if needed. (The Regner motor is the same as in my Otto and it has power). My basic design will be based off this photo with a little backwoods flare:

I started gathering the parts needed for the project including a fan from a vacuum cleaner. I got the fan off Amazon.

Nice!

I hope this doesn’t get Devoned! (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Every winter get’s me thinking of one, but usually something else get’s priority…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Does your mommy know you purchased all that stuff?

Is it done yet?

Seriously, I will be watching with great interest. Sounds like a great project. Not to derail Shawn’s build, but I have a quick question. Has any of the steam guys on here ever done a “Steam for Dummies” type thread or article. I have not looked around for one very much and I know I should before asking. I for one can see a great benefit in something of that nature. Just asking.

Sorry for the sidetrack Shawn. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Shawn, I think you will need more power. if you gear it way down you might have enough torque but it may not throw the snow at a higher speed it will probably bog down. Watching the video of the real ones, they seem to work really hard!

I was thinking this might Graham steam engine powered by an Emma Boiler might just do it or even not be powerful enough.

Eric Schade said:

Shawn, I think you will need more power. if you gear it way down you might have enough torque but it may not throw the snow at a higher speed it will probably bog down. Watching the video of the real ones, they seem to work really hard!

I was thinking this might Graham steam engine powered by an Emma Boiler might just do it or even not be powerful enough.

Thanks Eric. I think eventually I will end up going that route. The only reason Im using the Regner with the midwest boiler is lack of funds until my wife is off maternity leave lol… Im using this setup as a test to see how everything will work. Even if I can get it to blow the powdery snow for now, Ill be happy. The heavier stuff Ill use a battery motor until I can upgrade. This is all new grounds for me so any advice is greatly appreciated. My first step will be getting the car and fan housing built first then I can play with the rest.

Dan Hilyer said:

Is it done yet?

Seriously, I will be watching with great interest. Sounds like a great project. Not to derail Shawn’s build, but I have a quick question. Has any of the steam guys on here ever done a “Steam for Dummies” type thread or article. I have not looked around for one very much and I know I should before asking. I for one can see a great benefit in something of that nature. Just asking.

Sorry for the sidetrack Shawn. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Thanks Dan. Dont be sorry. Its always good to see people interested in live steam. A few good books on live steam

https://www.amazon.com/Building-Small-Steam-Locomotives-Practical/dp/184797029X/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NBS1T01EXV5VJ9FF73NG

http://www.livesteam.net/review-starting-steam/

http://www.thetraindepartment.com/books/

That looks like a very interesting build, look forward to watching your videos from the warmth of my home.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Interesting. But, just to be correct, that isn’t a fan, its an impeller.

Real, full sized, snow throwers usually blow compressed air into the discharge chute, to accelerate the snow, and throw it further. I do not know how one would even attempt that in scale.

David Maynard said:

Interesting. But, just to be correct, that isn’t a fan, its an impeller.

Real, full sized, snow throwers usually blow compressed air into the discharge chute, to accelerate the snow, and throw it further. I do not know how one would even attempt that in scale.

Yes impeller, fan its all the same in my little world. I think the older rotary plows, like the one im using, relied on the impeller to sweep it up into the chute and out. Just like the snowblower we use at home. The older steamed powered ones did not use compressed air that I know of. Maybe the newer ones used compressed air. But anything I read has no mention of compressed air. I would think speed and adjusting the chute angle will determine how far the snow shoots out.

SWEET! Shawn I love this plan. I’d really like to do a Steam rotary some day. My only caution is that the engine you have may not be strong enough. From my observation the impeller needs to spin as fast as possible to fling the snow. This means that you probably want to gear up from the engine Making more work for the engine than just straight coupling the impeller to it.

OOP’s just scrolled up and saw Eric’s response. That’s what you get for reading earlier in the day and posting later. Any way, I agree with Eric and those Graham’s would probably be perfect for the job, They even make some nice inline 3 engines like that.

I get your reasoning for moving forward with what you have, and can’t blame you one bit. So now let me say this is cool, I can’t wait to see what you build, and… Party on Garth!

@Maynard - I am not aware of any ‘air assist’ dischargees on rotaries. Considering the math, I doubt they would need it. Based on a video on the SP rotary up on Donner Pass consider the following. The diameter of the impeller is 11 feet. The rotary turns at a max of 900 rpm. So…11 feet diameter times Pi equals 34.56 feet circumference. 34.56 times 900 rpm says that the impeller tip travels 31,101 feet in 900 rpm. Divide that by 60 seconds and the velocity of the snow leaving the discharge chute is something on the order of magnitude of 518 feet per second. At that velocity I don’t think it needs any assistance. Even if you say the rpm is half that in heavy snow, you are still tossing the snow near the lengy of a football field in a couple of seconds (allowing for the decrease in velocity as distance increses).

@Sean - Finding the proper impeller for a rotary is real difficult. What is truely needed is a radial design, where the blades are perpendicular to the shaft and perfectly straight. The impeller in your photo will work…sort of…but because of it’s backward tipped blades will be non clogging, but can also tend to pack the snow as it pushes forward. What would be ideal is an impeller with radial blades and a small forward leaning cutting tip on the leading edge of the blade to ‘cut’ into the snow as you move forward. This design would allow you to use the smaller engine and control the discharge with the ability to move very slowly forward with out having to ram into the snow to make it bite.

Looking at your impeller it looks to be about 6 inches diameter. That will need to turn rather fast to get any type of discharge distance. Looking at your videos, I would either direct drive or over drive the impeller. I also agree with Eric that a larger power plant will be necessary.

You hae given me a lunch hour project at work … to design an impeller for a hobby rotary. I will see what I can come up with on Monday.

Bob C.

You know how to reach me if you wanna cheat on this build but you have to answer my original question first.

You all know he’s building a steam cleaner right! It’s just an excuse so he can enjoy cleaning the house.

Whoops I doubled down…

Michael Glavin said:

David Maynard said:

Interesting. But, just to be correct, that isn’t a fan, its an impeller.

Techinically its known as Fan Impeller. An ‘impeller’ moves liquid.

Neat project… The real deal turns slowly, you’ll have to spin the fan impeller up pretty good, to get it to work!

Michael

Thanks for the live steam references Shawn.

" Rooster " said:

You know how to reach me if you wanna cheat on this build but you have to answer my original question first.

Haha thanks Rooster. I got the boiler and motor a few years ago that is part of the reason why Im using it. I cant afford the better motors at the moment. I just want to see how things will work before I invest a few hundred bucks into a better motor and boiler. Honestly If it can blow an inch or 2 of powder snow, Ill be happy. Im not expecting to to do 6 inches of snow. That’s when the snow shovel comes out.

Bob “IA3R#7” Cope said:

@Maynard - I am not aware of any ‘air assist’ dischargees on rotaries. Considering the math, I doubt they would need it. Based on a video on the SP rotary up on Donner Pass consider the following. The diameter of the impeller is 11 feet. The rotary turns at a max of 900 rpm. So…11 feet diameter times Pi equals 34.56 feet circumference. 34.56 times 900 rpm says that the impeller tip travels 31,101 feet in 900 rpm. Divide that by 60 seconds and the velocity of the snow leaving the discharge chute is something on the order of magnitude of 518 feet per second. At that velocity I don’t think it needs any assistance. Even if you say the rpm is half that in heavy snow, you are still tossing the snow near the lengy of a football field in a couple of seconds (allowing for the decrease in velocity as distance increses).

@Sean - Finding the proper impeller for a rotary is real difficult. What is truely needed is a radial design, where the blades are perpendicular to the shaft and perfectly straight. The impeller in your photo will work…sort of…but because of it’s backward tipped blades will be non clogging, but can also tend to pack the snow as it pushes forward. What would be ideal is an impeller with radial blades and a small forward leaning cutting tip on the leading edge of the blade to ‘cut’ into the snow as you move forward. This design would allow you to use the smaller engine and control the discharge with the ability to move very slowly forward with out having to ram into the snow to make it bite.

Looking at your impeller it looks to be about 6 inches diameter. That will need to turn rather fast to get any type of discharge distance. Looking at your videos, I would either direct drive or over drive the impeller. I also agree with Eric that a larger power plant will be necessary.

You hae given me a lunch hour project at work … to design an impeller for a hobby rotary. I will see what I can come up with on Monday.

Bob C.

Thanks for the info Bob. I did think they used compressed air to help throw the snow. Im not sure how the fan impeller I got will work. Its all trial and error for now. I would love to see what you come up with. Here is a video of one being built. This seems to be a fairly easy way to do it and I might toy with this idea. I have seen a video where someone used something similar and it seemed to work. Once I got the car built and the fan chute I will have a better idea where im going with it.