So how much should cars weigh. I am messing around with a skeleton log flat car made from and aristocraft fish belly. Since I have taken off the entire upper decking and cut all the lower decking out from between the ribbing the car is very light.

So in building it back up I took a 1 5/8 x 3 3/4 piece of .030 lead sheet and put it at each end where the only decking will be. I then filled the bolster with lead wool. Capped all that off with styrene. Now even with the plastic wheels and no bunks it is decently heavy I think. I plan to add metal wheels and was going to cast the bunks in pewter. This will make this car pretty empty heavy.

I am wonder how heavy is just right and when is it overkill. I am using kaydee gscale body mounted couplers. I want them to be reliable empty.

And I know David I don’t need to be side tracked but this has been a year long conversation with a fellow club member and wanted to get one together so he can share in my vision

I think that Enema Ray has established some suggested weights for cars.

3 pounds on a 40’ car will work in long trains and no stringlining. 2 pounds is a little light. Try 2-1/2 pounds.

I use scale unloaded weight and it works for me, but it might take more head end power for long trains or steep grades.

to calculate scale weight take prototype weight in pounds, and divide by the cube of the scale.

Greg

Thanks Greg,

You mention right off a few critical areas to consider. Long consists are not an issue, depending on what you consider long. I am thinking no more that 10 cars or so behind a single engine. At most I will only make maybe 15 of these but really if I had 10 of them I would be tickled pink. But the critical parts are stringlining and grade. Most of my road is a snake. Way less straight section than curved and most of it is turning out to be 8’ diameter. So strinlining is an issue. Also I have a 3% grade over a section of it.

For now I am basing all my decisions on the idea that this will be pulled by a single USA trains GP9. The whole project from loco back to caboose is a prototype thing. If I have to pull fewer cars with other locos thats fine. But I would like to make it where the Geep can handle at least 10 cars, which I don’t think will be an issue even if they are a bit heavy. Eventually I will double head this consist for show and tell because thats what the prototype does.

If it is still too light you could just carve bark detail on some old grandfather clock brass weights to use as loads.

(okay, that gets my helpful input for the day done and over with, back to normal now) (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Forrest Scott Wood said:

If it is still too light you could just carve bark detail on some old grandfather clock brass weights to use as loads.

(okay, that gets my helpful input for the day done and over with, back to normal now) (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Brass clock weights(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif) I don’t need 10# cars, lol. No the issue wont at all be too light. I am afraid I am making them too heavy. Right now as it sits with plastic wheels and no bunks or other detail parts I am guessing I am @ 2 - 2 1/2 pounds already. I was surprised at how fast it put on weight and happy that it is all hidden in places that you will never see it. I wouldn’t have guessed I could get that much in it since basically there is no car left. I will add a pic or two tonight to show where I stuffed it.

But I am thinking now with metal wheels I will have all the empty weight I need. Adding logs will only make it better (worse). So now I am leaning toward resin bunks instead of pewter.

I mostly run empty, the metal wheels seem to take care of it fine, even on windy days.

Jerry Barnes said:

I mostly run empty, the metal wheels seem to take care of it fine, even on windy days.

Jerry,

When you say run empty what kind of car/cars are you talking about. When I run box cars and even the Aristo flat cars empty I don’t have issues either (so far) on other people’s layouts and that is with mostly plastic wheels. My concern here is that I have removed so much materiel that I have went beyond too light. I bet I have removed 1/2 of the weight of the empty car. But what got this whole question started for me is that I am now heavier already than the original empty car. So that should mean that I am at a place already where I can expect reliable running.

Again the issue I have is I am now more worried about being over weight. Your practice of running empty with only metal wheels reassures me that I am probably at a point where I need not add more weight unnecessarily. I just want thec ars to be sufficiently heavy for reliable running without causing to much strain on the other end.

Devon, if they weigh as much as your caboose, then you are fine.

I run the Bachmann log cars empty, and with metal wheels I have no issues. I also have a few scratch-built cars, made out of basswood or pine. They are much lighter then store bought cars, and they don’t give me any problems.

Greg’s solution will work, and it will work just fine. But I find that my Aristo boxcars are not up to scale weight. They are a bight lighter then that.

Basically, you just don’t want a real heavy car on the back end of the train. As long as all of the cars weigh about the same, and you have metal wheels, then they should be fine.

Well you all are confirming what I was suspecting already. I have them to a point that purposefully looking to add weight is unnecessary. I will weigh the car as it is tonight with metal wheels and see what it weighs but I am guessing its already at a point that is as heavy as any of the other rolling stock I have. If thats true then I see no need to add another 1/2 a pound in bunks. I can make them out of resin.

In deference to Jerry, he has a large loop with broad curves, and is basically flat (correct me if wrong Jerry).

Devon, you say your layout is a snake, has tighter curves and up to 3% grades.

My first piece of advice: If you insist on using just one loco, you will have to keep the traction tires and watch for cracked axles on your loco.

You should not add weight yet, except to flat cars. You need to see what your loco will pull.

In my opinion, with 3% grades and trains up to 15 cars, you should do this:

1. remove traction tires

2. use 2 locos

3. weight your cars to between 3 and 4 pounds for 40’ cars

I know this will work fine on your layout.

If you use less weight you will have to play with the arrangement of the cars in a train, really unacceptable for an operating layout. (roundy round with a fixed consist and ordering of cars is ok, but that is BORING and LIMITING)

If you use a single USAT loco, it will be pretty close on pulling power, and worse, too much load and wear on them.

This is my experience and opinion. I have 3.4% grades, minimum diameter of 9.5 foot and stainless track (which is a bit slippery), and about 20 USAT locos.

Greg

I once scratch built 3 covered hoppers based on the short Bachmann hopper coal cars and they came out pretty good so I thought why not build 3 more but wow the weight of that 6 car train was too much for my grades. The 6 cars then went on a diet and I removed as much wood as possible without compromising the integrity of the car.

My suggestion would be to build them as lite as possible then add metal wheels. If the cars are still too lite you can add several ounces by using stick on wheel weights used to balance tires.

I have used these on bachmann pilot wheels for my Garrett.

I think about 2 pounds per car would be good.

Well ideally I would love to use two Geep 9’s thats the eventual plan. But for now and in general it will be single locos. For the most part I have never planed to run more than just 4 or 5 car consists. This conversation of 10 to 15 cars is a special prototype train and wont be the norm. Its not a deal breaker if I can’t do it with one loco. It certainly wont be normal operations.

At any rate here is where the car sits now.

like this it weighs in lighter than I thought at 1# 11oz. It feels heavier but it is what it is. I put the lead sheet under the end decking and the bolsters under the strips of styrene are filled with lead wool. If I make the four bunks out of pewter then this car will go over 2 pounds empty. So I might go that route. I would rather run reliably and run fewer cars.

And just in case someone is scratching their head asking what the heck I am doing here is the prototype car.

1024×704 392 KB

1024×659 545 KB

And this is the dream. . .lol(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Have you thought of putting some weight in that c channel/center beam?

BB’s in the 4 cross channels capped with clay to keep them tight. Even some part way up the upright channels (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

BB’s are brass, go to a gun store and get some Small Bird Shot, while you still can, the smallest grain will have the smallest voids…

I just poured them into spaces and covered with white glue.

Another suggested making foil packets to hold the shot, I would still glue together in case it ever falls out…

John

Have a bag of shot which says Size 8 and 1/2 competition quality hard lead alloy Sb 5% that I use for weight in both trains and boats.
Usually put it in the voids ladling it in with a spoon, and then soak with moderately thin super glue. The bag is not much bigger than my size 10 & 1/2 sneakers and weighed about 25lbs new a decade ago. A bit less now

Yes, I bought lead shot years ago, and I use it for weight in cars and even the pilot (pony) truck on my Heartland 4-4-0. I lay the shot in, and move it around until its nice and even, then I coat the shot with Titebond glue. The next day its solid.

But if Devon is correct on the weight of his cars, I am not sure he needs to add anymore to them.

Before my outdoor cars got metal wheels the flat cars would often derail because they were so lite. I used 20d nails and jammed several where I could underneath the cars and that helped until that time one worked its way out and caused a major derailment.