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  • Topic: Bachmann C-19 speaker

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    • May 22, 2016 11:18 PM EDT
      • Fontana, California
         
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      Bachmann C-19 speaker

      I'm going to start the Airwire and Phoenix conversion on my Bachmann C-19 soon and was wondering if the stock speaker is worth keeping?

    • May 23, 2016 1:00 AM EDT

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      No complaints from me on mine. The tender body makes a great resonance chamber. I've got a Phoenix in mine (one of the D&RGW sound files, I forget which specific one). YouTube videos never quite do sound systems justice, but here's a video I shot of mine.

       

       

      Later,

       

      K

      This post was edited by Kevin Strong at May 23, 2016 1:03 AM EDT
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    • May 23, 2016 1:48 AM EDT
      • Fontana, California
         
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      That sounds nice and the dog bark effect is spot on :-) Did you use the factory chuff in the cylinders or a reed switch?

    • May 23, 2016 7:43 AM EDT
      • Chelmsford, MA
         
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      I use a variety of sound files in our C-19s but the sound I like best is what phoenix calls "Older 2-6-0 Mogul (Bachmann)".

       

      The reason is that the whistle in this sound file is a single chime which is the correct whistle for this locomotive.

       

      While some of our locomotives use the stock speaker.  I normally replace it if Phoenix has a good higher watt speaker in stock.  They had a great one a few years ago but the last one I got was not all that much better then the stock one.

       

      Stan

    • May 25, 2016 3:29 AM EDT

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      Getting the dog bark sound is easy. Getting it to shut off is the hard part. ;)

       

      I'm using reed switches on the tender wheels. I accidentally zapped the optical chuff circuit when I was installing the electronics, so there went that option. Fortunately, the tender wheels are almost exactly 3/4 the diameter of the drivers, so three magnets on the tender wheels gives a near-perfect 4 chuffs per revolution on the drivers.

       

      Stan, both D&RGW #346 and RGS #41 have multi-chime whistles, so I don't know that I would term a single-chime whistle as being "correct" for the entire class of C-19s. It's likely at least one C-19 had a single-chime whistle at one point in its life, as the D&RGW used single-chime whistles on some of their locos, but it's just as likely they would have had multi-chime whistles.

       

      Later,

       

      K

      This post was edited by Kevin Strong at May 25, 2016 3:44 AM EDT
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    • May 25, 2016 8:16 AM EDT
      • Chelmsford, MA
         
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      Kevin Strong said:

       

      Stan, both D&RGW #346 and RGS #41 have multi-chime whistles, so I don't know that I would term a single-chime whistle as being "correct" for the entire class of C-19s. It's likely at least one C-19 had a single-chime whistle at one point in its life, as the D&RGW used single-chime whistles on some of their locos, but it's just as likely they would have had multi-chime whistles.

       

      Later,

       

      K

      Kevin

       

      Very true in 2016.  Depends on the era you are modeling.  I believe all the C-19s originally had the single chime.  A few likely were changed over time while in the shop.   I believe that  the K 28s may be the first DRG&W locomotives to come with a multi chime whistles.

       

      Knottts currently has 5 chime whistles on their two C-19s  but they are not original to the locomotives.  They do have an original single chime that was on the locomotive when they got it but tend not to use it as it had a crack and I do not think they liked the sound as well.

       

      One of the problems of recording whistles is that often the current whistle has no relationship to the whistle the locomotive had in service.

       

      For example the 489 at C&TS currently has a standard gauge Santa Fe Whistle.

       

      Recorded the 2 truck Climax in Durbin last year.  Wonderful whistle.  However it is from a B&M 4-6-2.

       

      Whistle's also have to be tuned to sound good.  The following video shows a single chime before and after tuning on the 315.

       

      Stan

      This post was edited by Stanley Ames at May 25, 2016 8:24 AM EDT
    • May 25, 2016 10:03 AM EDT

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      The stock speaker is pretty weak, and also the tender should be sealed up to eliminate the vent holes in the tender floor if you want better bass. A Phoenix or Visaton is what I would use. You may have to add spacers if you keep the stock electronics.

      Worth the effort, we checked the before and after.

       

      Greg

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    • May 25, 2016 1:45 PM EDT
      • Fontana, California
         
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      I started removing everything the instructions said and the speaker was removed as well. I did notice the board can be moved up some so that's my plan. I'm also going to go with two 7.4V packs on either side of the board. The wires on the board seem very easy to break off so I gave the top and bottom of the wires a coat of silicon to help them from flexing to much.

    • May 26, 2016 12:22 AM EDT

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      There are many stories of engineers placing their own whistles on the locomotives they ran, and taking it home with them at the end of their day, so whistles could very well be engineer specific! I've found--even on locomotive we think "stayed the same" over the years, that there were actually quite a few subtle changes that occurred as they'd go in for repairs. Whistles, I've found through looking at photos, were often among those subtle changes.

       

      My philosophy on whistles is simple. I'm the son-of-a-gun who's got to listen to the thing, so darnit, it's gonna sound good to my ears! ;) Besides, Phoenix is the only manufacturer who offers an EBT whistle, but it's not one that was on any of the EBT locos I own, so it's all modeler's license.

       

      Later,

       

      K

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    • May 26, 2016 7:31 AM EDT
      • Chelmsford, MA
         
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      Kevin

       

      Well said

       

      Now if only we could get Phoenix to fix its EBT sound file so that the short whistle is not longer then the long whistle

       

      But I digress and it likely best to return to the topic.

       

      Greg

       

      On a few of our C-19s there is a lot of noticeable vibration in the tender when you turn the sound up using a good replacement speaker.  I have not taken the time to eliminate the vibration.  

       

      Did you notice this on the locomotive you enhanced?

       

      Bob

       

      There are spaces in one of the packages in the foam packing for raising the circuit board if needed.

       

      Stan

    • May 26, 2016 8:15 AM EDT
      • Penacook, New Hampshire
         
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      Hi Guys, Greg suggested using Visaton speakers. The 2.5" FRS7 greatly improved the sound. Next I tried a 3" speaker from Dayton RS75-4 available from Parts Express. This is a better fit and sounds great. However, I immediately heard the vibration. I used rope caulking to seal the tender shell against the fame and this eliminated the vibration. If sound quality is very important to you then I would try either one of these speakers.

      Don

    • May 26, 2016 9:12 AM EDT
      • Deer Park, Washington
         
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      Stan, I fully understand how to tune my French Horn, and recognize that the untuned whistle was flat compared to the tuned whistle, but what I don't understand is how do you tune a locomotive whistle.  Where is the tuning slide?

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    • May 26, 2016 12:50 PM EDT
      • Chelmsford, MA
         
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      Steve Featherkile said:

      Stan, I fully understand how to tune my French Horn, and recognize that the untuned whistle was flat compared to the tuned whistle, but what I don't understand is how do you tune a locomotive whistle.  Where is the tuning slide?

      Steve

       

      A little off topic but is more art then science.

       

      If you turn the whistle a little, the way the steam hits the whistle chamber changes a little but enough to significantly change the way a whistle sounds.  You can also put a extra fitting between the whistle and the steam source to also effect the way the steam enters the whistle.  

       

      I understand that you can also do a little filing in the chamber to also customize the way it sounds.

       

      In the old days an engineer had his own whistle and most had their own unique sounds. But like all art forms, today few know just how to do it.

       

      On the 315 video I understand an old engineer was on the special and did not like the way it sounded and was given the approval to adjust it.

       

      Stan

    • May 26, 2016 1:19 PM EDT

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      I've got to order some speakers from Parts Express for a dismal project I'm working on. I may have to give one of those others a go in my C-19. On the other hand, I'd be more inclined to relocate the speaker into the smokebox as I did on my K-27, as the sound dynamic that comes from hearing the chuff come from where it's supposed to, not 30' back, is becoming increasingly more noticeable every time I run my K.


      I think if TCS comes out with their WowSound 5-amp decoder, I may be inclined to pull the Revo/Phoenix combo I've got in my C-19 and give it an electronics overhaul. Nothing against Phoenix, but I've become very fond of how TCS does its prototypical braking, and I'd like to put that feature in the locos I regularly use for switching. That, or perhaps the new Tsunami 2 which was just announced, presuming that a 4-amp version will likewise be released. (If not, the Econami will work; just not quite as many whistles.)

       

      Later,

       

      K

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    • May 26, 2016 3:55 PM EDT
      • Deer Park, Washington
         
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      I've tended to avoid sound, especially in steamers, because of the reason that Kevin gave, the locomotive comes out of the tunnel, followed in a few seconds by the tender and the sound. 

       

      What really gets me though, is the sound that comes off the back of the speakers (undesired), competing with the sound coming off the front of the speakers (desired).  This is bad enough, but the back sound also gets the sides of the tender vibrating, creating an ugly (to me) reverberation.  This can be corrected by building a box behind the speaker and stuffing it with fiber to absorb the back sound, but that's a lot of work, when I can just listen to the speakers between my ears.  I guess this wye they call this a hobby.     

      This post was edited by Steve Featherkile at May 26, 2016 3:57 PM EDT
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      Not only does my mind wander, sometimes it walks off completely.

       

      Some people try to turn back their odometers.  Not me.  I want people to know why I look this way.  I've traveled a long way, and some of the roads weren't paved.  Will Rogers.

    • May 26, 2016 4:28 PM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      Don Sweet said:

      Hi Guys, Greg suggested using Visaton speakers. The 2.5" FRS7 greatly improved the sound. Next I tried a 3" speaker from Dayton RS75-4 available from Parts Express. This is a better fit and sounds great. However, I immediately heard the vibration. I used rope caulking to seal the tender shell against the fame and this eliminated the vibration. If sound quality is very important to you then I would try either one of these speakers.

      Don

      Vibration of the tender shell? Jut like the truck lids of all the cars owned by the 20 something guys around here.....

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