Forums Modeling O / On30
  • Topic: Cheap 2 rail O motor block

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    • February 27, 2015 1:14 PM EST
      • Vail, Az
         
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      Your concern is mounting the motor in your smaller loco, not so much steam or dismal ... Old style was to lay the motor down on the frame and use a worm and spur gears to power an axle.There are G locos with the vertical can motor too.

      Don't get an old Pittman motor they were open and collect dirt, cans are usually better.

      My newer stlye C-16 from Aristo uses a belt drive from motor to drive line. Mount the motor in your boiler and run the belt down in the fire box to the drive line... a worm could be  used on an axle gear...... Aristo powered each axle, some rely on rolling traction and cheap side rods to move the other drivers. Too often, G blind drivers are elevated to prevent them from dropping below rail head height on toy curves. Prototype blind drivers have a wider tread than flanged wheels to keep them on top.

      Some folks actually build the drive train first! nudge nudge then fit the loco over it! Really go figure!

      Now you need to figure out what size motor will fit and where....

      John

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • February 27, 2015 4:33 PM EST
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Well I believe Stan has come through for me. He has offered me a vertical can motor block that I think will work. Might have to get some other wheels on ebay but there are lots of old lionel drivers both new and old to be found. While a horizontal motor would be better space wise I have and idea on how to deal with the vertical can in this loco. The prototype Iron Mountain "Helena" which is the very rough basis for this build has the steam dome in the cab. Like you said build the loco around the motor block so I can place the steam dome in such a way as to cover the can. Even if it is a bit crude or over sized it will be in the cab more or less hidden. In away I like this because then I can use  the boile for an ESC board. Once I am sure of what I am dealing with I will need to determine power needs. I am hoping to go to a garage sale or good will and pick up a cheap RC car and use its ESC and battery unless this wont work for some reason.

      I think this might just come together.

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    • February 27, 2015 7:17 PM EST
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Well success, I have aquired a O motor block for my Fn2 build.

      Thanks Stan. He ran it at 12 volts and it buzzed right along and figures 7-8 volts would do. So now I have a tagert or the power considerations.

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    • March 2, 2015 2:12 PM EST
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Without holding the above block in my hand I really can't visualize how this will look but using John's little chassis and pouring over 0-4-0 locos pictures and finding drawing I could cut up in paint I came up with this rough design.

      It will be 10" long over all and 6 inches tall and 4" wide. Should be a fun little build.

      I did a little further editing and narrowed it to 2' gauge and add a bit of graphics. Consider this my napkin.

      This post was edited by Devon Sinsley at March 2, 2015 5:12 PM EST
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    • March 19, 2015 2:13 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      So for an update since this started going on another thread again and I hope Tac joins in the above diagram is what I am after. An 0-4-0 saddle tank loco in similar fashion to the LGB Helena

      Only a 2'gauge version running on 32mm track.

       

      I basically ruined the block I got from Stan when I tried to swap gears from the wheels that came on it to larger drivers I got off Ebay (Old Lionel). But with that said I still have the motor and gears from it and the wheels I bought on ebay. I have been fussing with the parts and I think I have a plan for how to make my own motor block. But if a suitable 32mm electric block can be fashioned into an internal frame block with drivers and side rods then I don't want to reinvent the wheel. The blocks suggested so far and the one I got from Stan are not lending themselves very well for this application. Now if i can swap wheels to something compatible with spoked wheels and side rods I am golden.

      This is meant to be a budget type project. It will be an indoor micro layout. This little loco will pull at best three very small cars, likely box cars.

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    • March 19, 2015 3:40 PM EDT
      • Prescott Valley, AZ
         
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      Sorry that the motor block was ruined...    I can certainly understand...  

      When kitbashing, all kinds of things can happen...

       

      Keep on keepin' on..

       

       

      ____________________________________

       

      In May 2015, the PCSRR in Dewey, AZ became a Fallen Flag

      But, we're still quite active in the Model Railroading Community and

      still in the decal business.  Please use the contact info

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      scedarleaf@aol.com  928.778.3732  or 520.831.3390

    • March 19, 2015 4:03 PM EDT
      • Newcastle, UK
         
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      From the sketch it looks at though you want 2 and a bit foot drivers at something like 3'6" wheelbase? Say 35mm//1-3/8" at 50to55mm//2to2-1/4".
      J.
    • March 19, 2015 4:05 PM EDT

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      While up at the Birdwater Estate earlier this week, I saw one of these in a little loco:

    • March 19, 2015 4:55 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Stan Cedarleaf said:

      Sorry that the motor block was ruined...    I can certainly understand...  

      When kitbashing, all kinds of things can happen...

       

      Keep on keepin' on..

       

       

      Yeah kinda made me mad a bit but it happens. But I do believe I will salvage it. I will use the motor some where for sure.

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    • March 19, 2015 5:01 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Jonathan J said:
      From the sketch it looks at though you want 2 and a bit foot drivers at something like 3'6" wheelbase? Say 35mm//1-3/8" at 50to55mm//2to2-1/4". J.

      Your right on the money for what I want. I already have 1 3/8 drivers I am hoping to use. And as drawn the wheel base is 2 1/4. The wheel base can very. I am just trying to keep it a small as I can to negotiate 24" dia curves. That was the plan. After looking at my space I can fit 30"dia curves. I think this loco will do it easy.

       

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    • March 19, 2015 5:02 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Cale Nelson said:

      While up at the Birdwater Estate earlier this week, I saw one of these in a little loco:

      Ok that is intriguing for sure.

       

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    • March 19, 2015 5:47 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Tamiya makes several small motors and gear boxes looks like. Quite enlightening. They are all small though 3-4v. Not sure what that means to our models though. I know from Tony his RC stuff wont run on less than 7. The above motor is only 3v. But they are cool, many have adjustable gear ratios. They are also cheap around $15.00. If they will run our equipment then for these small applications they could be the cats meow.

       

      Edit: To add to this after looking deeper into the Tamiya gear boxes many have the option of switching to a 6-12v motor. The one above doesn't list this option but others do. This company has many parts that may be of interest to us. this is their list of Tamiya motors

       

      https://www.pololu.com/search/compare/34

      This post was edited by Devon Sinsley at March 19, 2015 5:59 PM EDT
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    • March 19, 2015 7:09 PM EDT
      • Newcastle, UK
         
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      Devon Sinsley said:
      Jonathan J said:
      From the sketch it looks at though you want 2 and a bit foot drivers at something like 3'6" wheelbase? Say 35mm//1-3/8" at 50to55mm//2to2-1/4". J.

      Your right on the money for what I want. I already have 1 3/8 drivers I am hoping to use. And as drawn the wheel base is 2 1/4. The wheel base can very. I am just trying to keep it a small as I can to negotiate 24" dia curves. That was the plan. After looking at my space I can fit 30"dia curves. I think this loco will do it easy.

       


      Sounds workable - I've got a test rig 11" radius curve for a possible future micro of my own, but in G. I've widened the gauge by 10thou to 45.25mm and had to shave the inside chairs to stop the flanges bouncing on them (code200 rail) but shorter wheelbase blocks like the HLW interurban (2-1/2" wb, 1-1/4"ish wheels) and the motor half of the Piko V60 (2-5/8"ish wb, 1-5/8"ish wheels) get round it fine with no flange grab. That's plain curves of course, pointwork's likely to take bit more tuning, but be helped by the fact that all the rolling stock will have similar wb trucks. J.
    • March 19, 2015 7:16 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      I think it is doable. After conversing a bit with Vic his is turning as about what your trying to turn on his smallest upper level. So if 22" dia can be done at 45mm I think 30" should be simple at 32mm.

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    • March 20, 2015 6:41 PM EDT
      • Deer Park, Washington
         
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      Devon Sinsley said:

      I think it is doable. After conversing a bit with Vic his is turning as about what your trying to turn on his smallest upper level. So if 22" dia can be done at 45mm I think 30" should be simple at 32mm.

      Devon, would you translate this into English, please?  

      ____________________________________

      Not only does my mind wander, sometimes it walks off completely.

       

      Some people try to turn back their odometers.  Not me.  I want people to know why I look this way.  I've traveled a long way, and some of the roads weren't paved.  Will Rogers.

    • March 20, 2015 11:53 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Yeah Steve I would if I could but I am not even sure what I was trying to say.

      Vic, on is micro, has a 22" (11"radius) circle. That is using 45mm track. So my small loco running on 32mm track should able to manage 30".

       

      Is that better

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    • March 21, 2015 9:37 AM EDT
      • Deer Park, Washington
         
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      Much better.  Was there a faulty link between the seat and the keyboard?  

      ____________________________________

      Not only does my mind wander, sometimes it walks off completely.

       

      Some people try to turn back their odometers.  Not me.  I want people to know why I look this way.  I've traveled a long way, and some of the roads weren't paved.  Will Rogers.

    • March 21, 2015 7:48 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      There was some sort of glitch or twitch. The mainframe needed a reboot.

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    • April 25, 2015 9:55 PM EDT
      • Sacramento, California
         
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      Very interesting, Devon an all.  I've been interested in something similar using 0 gauge track.  I want to construct a short section of 3 foot NG on my 1:32 scale RR.  Thirty-two mm is close enough to three foot in 1:32. I suppose that since I want to build some dual gauge track, I could use batteries and not worry about short circuits, even if I run track power on the mainline.

      Keep us posted on your progress (with pictures, of course)!

    • April 27, 2015 5:49 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      Dick Friedman said:

      Very interesting, Devon an all.  I've been interested in something similar using 0 gauge track.  I want to construct a short section of 3 foot NG on my 1:32 scale RR.  Thirty-two mm is close enough to three foot in 1:32. I suppose that since I want to build some dual gauge track, I could use batteries and not worry about short circuits, even if I run track power on the mainline.

      Keep us posted on your progress (with pictures, of course)!

      At this point for what I want to accomplish I think I have decided to build from scratch block and all. As I have thought on it there is no reason why I can take my old Lionel spoked drivers and the motor I got from Stan and build out of brass my own block. Another option is the Northwest Short line motors and gear boxes and building your own block. I have fiddled with it a bit already and It is very doable if you have the tools, and by tools I don't mean anything other than something to cut brass bar stock, a file, a drill press, and a small tap and die. One could solder the brass but I am going to try at least attempt to bolt all together.

      But this is an absolute experiment and I had to gather myself back in and remember I have other projects I need to finish. So this has once again moved to the back burner and is a dream with a few parts gathered that calls to me like a kid locked in the basement.

      ____________________________________
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