Just wondering how to identify various sidings in a switching yard. Are they typically numbered or lettered? Any thoughts?

Tracks to the north and west (think: North by Northwest to remember it) of the main track are odd numbered, starting with 5.

Tracks to the south and east of the main are even numbered starting wtih 6.

Numbers 1-4 are reserved for main tracks.

Also, your mileage may vary by railroad … this is the old New Haven method.

Matthew (OV)

Sidings don’t exist in a switching yard. Either you have a siding on a main track were trains can meet, or you have yard tracks. You can’t have both by the strict definition from the GCOR.

Most yards I worked were a combination of both. Some named tracks (“A”, “B”, Cab track, East End lead, SIG 1, PC Running, etc) and numbered tracks (1 starting with the longest normally, the last number being the shortest.

Hopefully this shows, and you are able to zoom in on the place marker.

39°58’30.44" N 76°42’53.57" W

OK, I don’t know how to get google earth placed here. But if you load the above co-ordinates in a map/satellite site, you should be looking at NS’s yard at Pa rte 30 at Laucks Rd. This is an interchange yard between NS and York Rail.

NS trackage is at the top and goes under I-83. Just below I-83 I placed a marker on Google Earth, but there is also a yardful of cement trucks to the left of the tracks. Directly across to the right on the last track are usually a string of covered hoppers on a siding that is fenced in with the large building to the right of the tracks.

Now to me, this sure looks like a siding off the yard tracks, since the mainline tracks are on the left. But, I may be wrong

So by definition a siding connects directly to the main? Others are referred to as yard tracks? I like the odd-even sequencing. I think that will work well for me.

Here’s another question. Can you have “sub-yards” within a large yard. I have a yard that geographically breaks well into an east yard and a west yard but they are both part of one complex. I thought I would denote them as such.

Its very common to break up yards into north/south/east/west/etc.

Also are inbound and outbound yards.

Gee, I have a front-yard, a backyard, a side-yard and a sidewalk…

This is the strict definition for the following terms according to the GCOR (General Code of Operating Rules for Railroads West of the Mississippi).

Main Track- A track extending through yards and between stations that must not be occupied without authority or protection. (Key words: Must not be occupied without authority or protection).

Multiple Main Tracks- Two or more main tracks that are used according to the timetable.

Siding- A track connected to the main track and used for meeting or passing a trains. Location of sidings are shown on the timetable special instructions.

Yard- A system of tracks, other than main tracks and sidings, used for the making up trains, storing cars, and other purposes.

Yard Limits- A portion of a main track designated by yard limit signs and timetable special instructions or a track bulletin.

As you can see you have two types of track: main tracks and sidings, and “other than main tracks and sidings”. Can’t be both!

Subyards are really common. The bigger classification yards can be divided into different sections such as inbound/outbound tracks, classification tracks, hump tracks, etc. At the Interbay yard (a relatively small hump yard) we had the following tracks main yard tracks: A, B, 3-21 with 3-6 being stub tracks, hump tracks 1-18, grain yard (both inbound and outbound sections), and the 20 yard (3 tracks across the main from the main yard). At Stacy St Yard we had the Main yard 1-19, SIG 1-4 on the ramp, South SIG 5-8, and various industry tracks. Confused yet?

Dave, N.B., Marconi said:

Hopefully this shows, and you are able to zoom in on the place marker.

39°58’30.44" N 76°42’53.57" W

OK, I don’t know how to get google earth placed here. But if you load the above co-ordinates in a map/satellite site, you should be looking at NS’s yard at Pa rte 30 at Laucks Rd. This is an interchange yard between NS and York Rail.

NS trackage is at the top and goes under I-83. Just below I-83 I placed a marker on Google Earth, but there is also a yardful of cement trucks to the left of the tracks. Directly across to the right on the last track are usually a string of covered hoppers on a siding that is fenced in with the large building to the right of the tracks.

Now to me, this sure looks like a siding off the yard tracks, since the mainline tracks are on the left. But, I may be wrong

It all depends if the track is considered under any type of authority. I’d call the track your describing as a industrial spur off the yard. Most likely its classified as a spur track or “other than main track”. It’s not a main track or a siding (can you meet/pass a train, and is there some type of authority present to occupy said track?), so by definition it becomes a yard track or other than main track.

May be a dumb question but what are inbound and outbound yards? I keep thinking that a yard would be both.

A big hump yard will be made up of smaller yards within the ‘hump yard’. Would be set up something like this. Say a East end departure yard, east end arrival yard, the actual hump, west end departure yard, west end arrival yard.

An old NP map of Stacy St. Yard. A lot has changed since this map!

Here’s the more modern map of Stacy Street.

Most smaller yards have the longest tracks dedicated for arrival/departures. At Stacy St, Tracks 1-7 were the arrival/departure tracks as they were 3000’ and had ground air for testing, plus room on each side for carman to work the trains.

Here’s Bailey Yard as major UP hump Yard.

Lots of variables, but wouldn’t “Yard tracks” be within the “Yard Limits”?

I’ve heard of double ended sidings and sidings, but couldn’t a single ended siding also be called a “spur”?

Great discussions. With multiple correct answers and exceptions.

Ric Golding said:

Lots of variables, but wouldn’t “Yard tracks” be withing the “Yard Limits”?

I’ve heard of double ended sidings and sidings, but couldn’t a single ended siding also be called a “spur”?

Great discussions. With multiple correct answers and exceptions.

No. Yard Limits is a referring to a specific type of authority granted to occupy a main track. Remember only two types of track “exist” main track and other than main track. Yard Limits applies to tracks identified as 'main tracks". A yard is strictly defined as tracks ‘other than main tracks’. To occupy a ‘main track’ you need a type of authority. Yard Limits is one example of authority, CTC, OCS, TWC, DTC are all other types of authority.

When you have a yard that is ‘other than main track’ type of yard no one controls the authority or where you can or can not go. Trains are required to be able to stop within 1/2 the range of vision. It all gets down to the type of authority or lack of authority needed to occupy a track. We tend to think of a yardmaster as giving authority to trains to tell them where to go, but in fact they have no authority to give authority as no authority is needed.

Sidings are weird as they can be both double ended or single ended, as long as they fit the one requirement: marked on the timetable. It all comes down to how the timetable defines an area. You could have a 20,000’ long siding (which is in essence two main tracks), or you could have a 20,000’ section of two main tracks. It’s all up to the timetable. I’ll see if I can find an example of this in one of my timetables. Sidings as a station as well on the timetable. Spur tracks or industrial tracks sometimes are, sometimes not.

So can an assigned switch engine cross the Main with a cut of cars, within the “Yard Limits” of a Yard, without specific authority, moving say from North Yard trackage to South Yard trackage as long as he pays attention to the Timetable and stays clear of mainline traffic?

I would think it would entail specific instructions in the Timetable, plus speed restrictions on the Main.

I’m wondering if categorizing the North Yard part of the yard from the South Yard part of the yard into two seperate yards, but designated under the same Yard Limits would address this on a timetable? This would fall under that “sub yard” question.

Truly interesting.

Reading and re-reading this I’m slowly getting a clearer understanding. But, I will not be taking a test.

Ric, to enter mainline tracks you need authority from the dispatcher even if its just to cut across to another section of yard or an industry. Mainline tracks are controlled tracks. Controlled Tracks are controlled by the dispatcher.

Yard limits is just s term to describe your authority for movement on those tracks and the specific rules you must follow when operating in main track YL. Almost all the yards I work the mainline Yard limits are controlled by CTC with ABS/CPS signals. Now one yard we have is a small yard at the end of a main and when you work around there the dispatcher will give you a EC-1 (CSX version of TWC-DCS) giving you “yard limits” and that allows you to come and go as you please into and out of the yard on to the main.

In areas with signals as previously stated we pretty much work in conjunction with the Yard master and dispatcher to do any work on the mainline. Once any part of your train is on the main you are then controlled by signal indication. Now some Yards have a Mainline and a siding in YL and the same applies for a siding, you need permission to occupy the siding as it too is controlled track.

EDIT: So for the most part, Operating in Yard limits is no different than any other method of operation minus a few rules changes. Basically just telling you how to operate around a yard. It has very little to do with the yard itself as a yard and all its tracks are just other than main and that brings about a different set of rules.

YL’s, siding and mains are all identifiable by using a timetable and if there are any more specific rules for any of those they will be identified in the special instructions, bulletins, or messages.

Ric,

I’m going to counter Ryan’s comments and say that technically yes you could enter a Yard Limit controlled main without the dispatchers authority (and permission). Authority and Permission being two different things. The authority to occupy a Yard Limit Main, is by the designation of Yard Limits. A block signal system maybe in effect such as ABS, which would require either getting the dispatchers permission to open the switch, or opening the switch and waiting 5 minutes.

Ryan,

How can you have a CTC authority main, and a Yard Limit authority main? That’s two different types of authority. One or the other. Maybe your thinking of a informal yard limit. Okay, I looked it up in the GCOR. Rule 6.13 Yard Limits… In CTC territory. Where yard limits are in effect CTC territory, the control operator must authorize any movement on the main track. Reverse movements within the same block may be made as outlined in Rule 6.4.1 (Permission for reverse movements). I’ll have to pull out my GCOR and check, but I’m pretty sure that you can’t have CTC and Yard Limit authority on the same section of main track. Oh, and you can’t have CTC and ABS at the same time either. So either you have a CTC main, or you have a ABS+ some type of authority (Yard Limits, OCS, DCS). ABS is simply a signalling feature and has not one ounce of authority associated with it. Wow, I guess I was completely wrong, but than again I haven’t operated under these rules in almost four years, so my memory like tot think it’s right. Oh well, at least I have my old rulebook to reference too!

The territory that I worked was OCS/ABS in some sections, followed by CTC. When the CTC ended the ABS started, and vis versa. OCS was the authority that allowed you on the main. You could get written OCS, or verbal OCS, but the ABS signals did not convey any authority.

Here’s the full Yard Limits Rule GCOR 6.13

Within yard limits, trains or engines are authorized to use the main track not protecting against other trains or engines, only after obtaining a track warrant (not a TWC warrant, but track warrant telling of the conditions of the track, slow orders, MOW, etc), listing all track bulletins that affect their movement. Engines must give way as soon as possible to trains as they approach. Engines must keep posted as to the arrival of passenger trains and must not delay them. All movements entering or moving within yard limits must be made at restricted speed unless operating under a block signal indication that is more favorable than approach. Upon observing or having advance knowledge that a block signal may require restricted speed due to yard limits, if entering or within yard limits, the movement must be at restricted speed at that block signal, or as soon as possible thereafter, consistent with good train handling.

Yard Limits remain n effect continuously unless specified by special instructions or track bulletin.

Against the Current of Traffic

Movements against the current of traffic must not be made unless authorized or protected by track warrant, track bulletin, yardmaster, or other authorized employee.

In CTC territory.

Where yard limits are in effect CTC territory, the control operator must authorize any movement on the main track. Reverse movements within the same block may be made as outlined in Rule 6.4.1

In Track Permit Territory

Where yard limits are in effect in Rule 9.15 (track Permit) territory, all movements must receive permission from the control operator to enter the main track or to cross over from one main track to another as follows. A controlled signal displays a proceed indication. A track permit is issued. or Verbal permission is granted if no track permit is in effect. Rule 9.17 (Entering Main track at Hand operated or Spring Switch) applies.

CTC, Centralized traffic Control is a combination of Automatic Block Signal(ABS) and Control Point Signals (CPS) used to control movement by a single centralized person. (AKA the dispatcher) So yeah, you can have CTC and ABS because ABS and CPS make CTC.

I’m not to familiar with OCS as it doesn’t exist where I operate but AFIK its Occupancy Control system? which uses Track warrants and ABS signals? The signals just warn of track conditions and the dispatcher has no control over them just like any ABS.

In CTC the signal gives authority and in OCS the track warrant gives authority.

To me, reading that rule it essentially says you can in fact enter the main but if the main is protected by CTC or track warrant you can’t w/o permission.

That being said, by CSX rules there are places where there are small yards and the mainline yard limits are rule 96 which is uncontrolled track and operation is basically the same as other than main but it can have different speeds attached to it. Or as i said before you can be granted yard limits by mandatory directive (EC-1 or track warrant) So maybe its more of a method of operation than an Authority.

But CSX rules aren’t GCOR or NORAC.