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    • April 26, 2018 6:27 AM EDT
    • Forrest Scott Wood said:
      David Marconi,FOGCH said:

      Good bit of research there Forrest. Thank you

      Thanks! It is fun to find out things.

      Had a head start in a couple books from University of Minnesota Press about the Minneapolis and St Louis which spoke of the bridges and buildings gang rehabbing some water pumps and such and I think even has pictures of windmills: I didn't go look to be sure.

      And while we're talking water tanks; they weren't all skinny and tall, somewhere in one of the books is photo of one which had proportions more like a cake pan.

      Okay, now I did go look, on page 170 at town named Belmond (I don't know which state)

      And in other news, the Minneapolis and St Louis went to St Louis like the St Louis - San Francisco went to California.

       

       

      WOW, very interesting. I have never seen these photos of windmills and water tanks before. Thanks for sharing. Doc Tom

    • April 25, 2018 7:54 AM EDT
    • David Marconi,FOGCH said:

      Good bit of research there Forrest. Thank you

      Thanks! It is fun to find out things.

      Had a head start in a couple books from University of Minnesota Press about the Minneapolis and St Louis which spoke of the bridges and buildings gang rehabbing some water pumps and such and I think even has pictures of windmills: I didn't go look to be sure.

      And while we're talking water tanks; they weren't all skinny and tall, somewhere in one of the books is photo of one which had proportions more like a cake pan.

      Okay, now I did go look, on page 170 at town named Belmond (I don't know which state)

      And in other news, the Minneapolis and St Louis went to St Louis like the St Louis - San Francisco went to California.

    • April 25, 2018 7:33 AM EDT
    • Forrest Scott Wood said:

      Oh, I'm in the mood to see what can be found in railroad windmill documentation.

       

      This compact mechanism was mounted on a four-legged wood tower that could be constructed over a well in one day. Railroad companies immediately recognized windmills as an inexpensive means of providing water for steam engines and for attracting settlers to semi-arid regions through which they planned to lay track. In 1860 the Houston Tap and Brazoria Railway purchased the right to manufacture and use James Mitchell's "Wind Wheel" on its right-of-way from Houston to Wharton. By 1873 the windmill had become an important supplier of water for railways, small towns where there were no public water systems, and small farms. Many of the very early mills were crude, inefficient, homemade contraptions. One of the popular makeshift mills was a wagon wheel with slats nailed around it to catch the wind, mounted on half an axle. The axle was fastened securely to a post erected beside the well. A sucker rod was pinned to the edge of the hub. It was stationary and worked only when the wind blew in the right direction. The windmills used later on the big ranches were the more dependable factory-made windmills.

      https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/aow01

       

      Seems there eventually came to be "railroad pattern" windmills,

      https://books.google.com/books?id=aAHK-CmMmfIC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=railroad+windmill+pump&source=bl&ots=WY3Atm7lck&sig=GvYptM4zw30Hn4Jbj4N-VJEThCE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOlMCUqdTaAhVS-qwKHRglDOcQ6AEIhQEwDQ#v=onepage&q=railroad%20windmill%20pump&f=false

       

      An illustration of a Halladay windmill in use by a railroad station, 1885. Public Domain

      Railroads were another important customer. Steam locomotives had to be watered at regular intervals, which was accomplished with a string of tanks and pumps. On the first transcontinental railroad, tanks occurred about every twenty miles. Self-regulating windmills, some of which were also self-oiling, required little to no maintenance and could operate unattended, making them ideal for long stretches between towns. Manufacturers started putting out windmills that had wider bases and could pump greater quantities of water. These came to be called “railroad pattern” windmills. The most common version—and one of the biggest and most powerful—was called the Railroad Eclipse. Eventually, some communities used railroad pattern mills for municipal water supplies.

      ... (quotes are opposite of order in article) ...

      Self-governing water pump windmills soon became a staple of the American homestead. They were simple, well-constructed, and dependable, the windmill equivalent of a pair of denim jeans. At first they were mostly wood, but metal varieties became more and more common. Almost every farm had one. Some people, {some logging layouts?}  unable to afford a professional windmill, fashioned their own using manufactured versions as models. According to an article in the journal Wind Energy, more than one million such windmills had been erected across the United States starting in the mid-19th century.

      https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/windmills-water-pumping-museum-indiana

       

      Well, hey, they were even used in the UK;

      American-style windpumps were never as ubiquitous in Britain as they were in North America and in other countries with comparable conditions, such as Australia, Argentina and South Africa. However, they did become a reasonably common sight, particularly in flatter, drier areas. The Royal Agricultural Society of England organised wind engine trials in 1903, and awarded medals to favoured models. Among British firms, Duke & Ockendon ('Dando') of Littlehampton (which is still in business as a manufacturer of drilling equipment) offered a range of wind pumps, often on more than usually elaborate steel towers. Some were supplied to British railway companies, including the London & South Western (for example at Gillingham, Dorset, and Bentley, Hampshire) and the London, Brighton & South Coast (for example at Christ's Hospital and Ford).

      https://hfstephens-museum.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=43:wind-and-water&catid=29&Itemid=125

       

       

      Good bit of research there Forrest. Thank you

    • April 24, 2018 10:04 PM EDT
    • Oh, I'm in the mood to see what can be found in railroad windmill documentation.

       

      This compact mechanism was mounted on a four-legged wood tower that could be constructed over a well in one day. Railroad companies immediately recognized windmills as an inexpensive means of providing water for steam engines and for attracting settlers to semi-arid regions through which they planned to lay track. In 1860 the Houston Tap and Brazoria Railway purchased the right to manufacture and use James Mitchell's "Wind Wheel" on its right-of-way from Houston to Wharton. By 1873 the windmill had become an important supplier of water for railways, small towns where there were no public water systems, and small farms. Many of the very early mills were crude, inefficient, homemade contraptions. One of the popular makeshift mills was a wagon wheel with slats nailed around it to catch the wind, mounted on half an axle. The axle was fastened securely to a post erected beside the well. A sucker rod was pinned to the edge of the hub. It was stationary and worked only when the wind blew in the right direction. The windmills used later on the big ranches were the more dependable factory-made windmills.

      https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/aow01

       

      Seems there eventually came to be "railroad pattern" windmills,

      https://books.google.com/books?id=aAHK-CmMmfIC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=railroad+windmill+pump&source=bl&ots=WY3Atm7lck&sig=GvYptM4zw30Hn4Jbj4N-VJEThCE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOlMCUqdTaAhVS-qwKHRglDOcQ6AEIhQEwDQ#v=onepage&q=railroad%20windmill%20pump&f=false

       

      An illustration of a Halladay windmill in use by a railroad station, 1885. Public Domain

      Railroads were another important customer. Steam locomotives had to be watered at regular intervals, which was accomplished with a string of tanks and pumps. On the first transcontinental railroad, tanks occurred about every twenty miles. Self-regulating windmills, some of which were also self-oiling, required little to no maintenance and could operate unattended, making them ideal for long stretches between towns. Manufacturers started putting out windmills that had wider bases and could pump greater quantities of water. These came to be called “railroad pattern” windmills. The most common version—and one of the biggest and most powerful—was called the Railroad Eclipse. Eventually, some communities used railroad pattern mills for municipal water supplies.

      ... (quotes are opposite of order in article) ...

      Self-governing water pump windmills soon became a staple of the American homestead. They were simple, well-constructed, and dependable, the windmill equivalent of a pair of denim jeans. At first they were mostly wood, but metal varieties became more and more common. Almost every farm had one. Some people, {some logging layouts?}  unable to afford a professional windmill, fashioned their own using manufactured versions as models. According to an article in the journal Wind Energy, more than one million such windmills had been erected across the United States starting in the mid-19th century.

      https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/windmills-water-pumping-museum-indiana

       

      Well, hey, they were even used in the UK;

      American-style windpumps were never as ubiquitous in Britain as they were in North America and in other countries with comparable conditions, such as Australia, Argentina and South Africa. However, they did become a reasonably common sight, particularly in flatter, drier areas. The Royal Agricultural Society of England organised wind engine trials in 1903, and awarded medals to favoured models. Among British firms, Duke & Ockendon ('Dando') of Littlehampton (which is still in business as a manufacturer of drilling equipment) offered a range of wind pumps, often on more than usually elaborate steel towers. Some were supplied to British railway companies, including the London & South Western (for example at Gillingham, Dorset, and Bentley, Hampshire) and the London, Brighton & South Coast (for example at Christ's Hospital and Ford).

      https://hfstephens-museum.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=43:wind-and-water&catid=29&Itemid=125

    • April 24, 2018 9:50 PM EDT
    • Thanks for the hydrology advice guys!!!

      There is a hill on the backdrop of the engine house/water tank scene.



      Sounds like best advice is to run a pipe under the tracks and up to that fine limestone spring up in the hills.

       

      Appreciate all the comments and ideas.

      Doc Tom

    • April 23, 2018 7:46 PM EDT
    • There are small ponds along old track right of way all over southern Illinois.  Some are named for the railroad, some are named for the farm they were built on.  Some are just ponds.

      .

      Like others said, windmills, pumps, cistrens(sp?), deep spots in small streams, springs from a hill side.

      .

      Cass Scenic Railroad has a great old tender tank buried in the ground gathering the water from a mountain stream.  I'm sure somebody can post a picture.

       

       

    • April 23, 2018 10:34 AM EDT
    • Morning Tom,

      If not fed by a spring or creek from up hill as John mentioned then the water had to be pumped.  A well was pretty much out of the picture in the logging woods, most likely pumping up hill from a creek or river as you mentioned.  This pumping would most likely be done with a "Hit and Miss" gas engine with pump.  Some times they would have a section walkers shack nearby so he could operate and service the pump as part of his daily work.

      Hit and Miss engines  see here   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit-and-miss_engine

      Layout is looking good

      Rick

    • April 23, 2018 8:14 AM EDT
    • [​IMG]

      Hmm looks great ..however you could remove the top and have someone swimming in it (girls) 

    • April 23, 2018 2:24 AM EDT
    • No springs up on a hillside? Run a pipe down to it.

      A tank is a serious building, sinking a well isn't out of line and perhaps a windmill to move the water...

    • April 22, 2018 9:22 PM EDT
    • LOOKING for some "railroad historical advice."

      Here is the backside of the new water tank.



      Note the black pipe that will pump water up into the tank. I was wondering how they did it in 1910 when electricity was pretty young and not likely to be found out in "the backwoods." So not likely to have an electric water pump.

      This logging outfit is so temporary that I do not think they would have drilled a well.

      I was thinking the resourceful loggers would drop a hose or some pipe over the 30' cliffs overlooking the red river and pump up H2O.



      What kind of temporary pumps did they use? Steam powered? Do you have any photos or drawings?

      Thanks in advance. Doc Tom

    • April 21, 2018 9:36 PM EDT
    • During spare moments I have been able to construct this "backwoods" water tank to slake the thirst of the hard working logging lokies on the mini layout. It is Banta kit that was a lot of fun to build.

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      Thanks for looking. Doc Tom

    • April 21, 2018 6:37 AM EDT
    • The motors in On30 equipment are 12 volt motors, same as HO. But I know that our DCC set up in the one club uses a 16 volt supply for the DCC booster, its an HO club.

       

      Honestly I think you would be ok with the 11.1 volt battery. Have you seen how fast them suckers run on 11 volts?

    • April 20, 2018 10:30 PM EDT
    • What would be the maximum DC/DCC power supply voltage for On30?
      I would like to use L-Ion battery power for my DCC. I could use 11.1volt
      battery, but I think that is a little low!? 14.8volt battery would be better,
      but I afraid the charged value would be too high.? NiCAD or NiMH could
      provide 12volts which would be great, but the size would be prohibitive.
      Tom

    • April 3, 2018 12:37 PM EDT
    • Woodland Scenics did a really nice job on the trailers that I used on the layout.

      This one even has a lighted television inside!

    • April 3, 2018 9:17 AM EDT
    • Forrest Scott Wood said:

      I'm too paranoid about the success rate of gravity and the motives of that Murphy lawyer dude to have one of those around the top of the wall tracks.

      The trackside arrangements do make nice looking scenes.

      Pennsylvania's E6 Atlantics, H-8 Consolidations, and G-5 4-6-0s, which shared that boiler all made good looking locomotives and I understand that boiler steamed well too.


      Oh! The C of G football car! :)

      Probably more of a chance I will drop them myself while handling the locomotives & cars then of them falling off of the railway!

    • April 3, 2018 9:15 AM EDT
    • Sean McGillicuddy said:

      I would Install a covered bridge over the door ..It's a great echo chamber ...and looks awesome as well.

      Something to think about for my winter project next year!

    • April 3, 2018 8:11 AM EDT
    • I'm too paranoid about the success rate of gravity and the motives of that Murphy lawyer dude to have one of those around the top of the wall tracks.

      The trackside arrangements do make nice looking scenes.

      Pennsylvania's E6 Atlantics, H-8 Consolidations, and G-5 4-6-0s, which shared that boiler all made good looking locomotives and I understand that boiler steamed well too.


      Oh! The C of G football car! :)

    • April 3, 2018 6:53 AM EDT
    • I would Install a covered bridge over the door ..It's a great echo chamber ...and looks awesome as well.

    • April 2, 2018 4:14 PM EDT
    • Had to do O-scale for my ceiling layout as we do not have high enough ceilings to do Large Scale around the ceiling.

      But it does give me an excuse to spend more time at the train store!