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    • December 14, 2018 5:22 PM EST
    • It is not my railroad. We regularly operate Lgb moguls hauling about 5 cars up the grade, which gently curves. As stated earlier, I like the mack, but it has no room for my receiver. And while I do like kit bashing, I am trying to make the installation as simple as possible. 

    • December 14, 2018 4:30 PM EST
    • I like the Bachmann Davenport suggestion but it is a small engine and short on space for your electronics.  I think the better suggestion is the MACK.  You can buy one for as little as $50 and there is lots of room under the frame for adding weights and you could rearrange the cab and motor covers to make something really unique. 

      A 8% grade is pretty tall.  Is it all straight track? If so maybe you could build some type of cable system to haul the cars up?

    • December 13, 2018 9:52 PM EST
    • Joe Loll said:

      What four wheel diesel (or non-steam) locos would have room to fit a g3 Airwire receiver and a battery? I'm looking for a reliable small loco to convert to battery power. I am hoping that it will be able to pull a couple cars up an 8% grade. It would be nice if the battery could be removable and easily accessed. For the sake of measuring things, the g3 is 4 inches long, and 1 1/2 inches wide. I appreciate your suggestions and opinions. Thank you.

       

      Joe 

       

      Probably not looking for an RTR, but if that's an option, Roundhouse has some: http://roundhouse-eng.com/

    • December 13, 2018 5:51 PM EST
    • I fit battery r/c in my Aristocraft Lil Critter but I used the Revolution. I put the Revo under the hood and the battery in the cab. Not sure if a 4" board would fit.

    • December 13, 2018 5:37 PM EST
    • My only gripe with battery cars is that they take up more space than just the engine itself. It is less of a problem with smaller locos, but even then it would be nice to take advantage of their small size. The mack will not be able to fit an Airwire receiver. I know as I have a mack and have tried it.  But in all other respects, the mack is a great choice. Those Australian critters seem like they'd do the job, but they are a bit out of my price range. I actually do have a candidate in the back of my mind (the eggliner), but I was hoping there might be a more serious loco that would fit the bill. As you mentioned earlier Greg, wheel size plays a part in traction. The eggliner has large wheels, which could be a problem, although I believe it will easily fit an Airwire receiver and battery, which could be removable. The newer Aristo and Bachmann motor blocks appear to be reliable, and I think there would be some room to add some more weight.

      What do y'all think?

       

      (P.S., the particular railroad with the 8% grade has track that is not polished because it is battery only, so the traction is a little better than other track powered lines, not that an 8% grade isn't too steep for a small engine)

    • December 13, 2018 5:23 PM EST
    • While we're talking grades I want to remind the world that locomotive pulling ability declines FAST on inclines.

      Examples, though steam would be illustrative of steel wheel on steel rail characteristics in general:

      (as much as I love the little internal combustion, and electric, industrial critters I don't have any performance references for them)

      According to data on page 94 of a reprint of a Baldwin steam locomotive catalog, a standard gauge 2-8-2 of 160 tons weight in working order with 63 inch drivers, can haul 6080 tons "of cars and lading" on the level; 920 tons on a 2% grade; and 275 tons on a 5% grade.

      and

      from book H. K. Porter Light Locomotives

      Heavy steel works 4 wheel connected saddle tank locomotive, an 0-4-0ST, their largest one of 50.5 tons weight in working order, with 20,435lbs tractive effort; can haul 3090 tons on the level; 720 tons on a 1% grade; and 235 tons on a 3% grade.

      And somewhere on the bookshelf over there is a Milwaukee Road electrified territory book from Morning Sun where one picture caption of a location where NP paralleled MILW mentions the shown NP Z-something class 2-8-8-something articulated/Mallet in the background was rated to haul only 600 tons on the 4% grade at that location.

       

      It is also known and written about that model locomotives of most all scales normally have proportionally less hauling ability on the level and greater hauling ability on grades than does the real deal.

       

      And with that I'm out of intelligent things to say and am getting signals that my tummy would like some dinner.

    • December 13, 2018 5:03 PM EST
    • Tony Walsham said:

      I daresay this would fit the bill but it comes RTR with battery R/C and sound.

      Go HERE for information.

      The loco which Tony refers to is an Australian sugar cane loco from MyLocoSound. It can be supplied in kit or ready to run versions and has a heavy steel chassis and quality motor which should handle your 8% grades well. It has a drop in battery/electronics raft which plugs into the motor. We can supply it without radio control for you to fit your own and with or without sound. Please email sales@mylocosound.com if you want a quote to supply.

      Regards

      Peter Lucas, MyLocoSound

    • December 13, 2018 5:01 PM EST
    • Tony Walsham said:

      I daresay this would fit the bill but it comes RTR with battery R/C and sound.

      Go HERE for information.

      Oh, I like those! Now, how many leftover laundromat quarters do I have floating around ...

    • December 13, 2018 5:00 PM EST
    • John Caughey said:

      I don't know what will fit, but I'd start here ...

      Mack by HLW

      Ohhh, one of my favorite, if not THE favorite, large scale locomotives. Sturdy, reliable, good puller, & almost a blank slate for doing things to.

    • December 13, 2018 3:21 PM EST
    • I daresay this would fit the bill but it comes RTR with battery R/C and sound.

      Go HERE for information.

    • December 13, 2018 3:06 PM EST
    • I see I missed the requirement for a 4 wheel diesel... sorry.... the new Piko is pretty lightweight, and barely has room for batteries, you can buy the track cleaning version, which has all traction tires, but I think 8% pulling 2 cars is out of the question.

       

      Greg

    • December 13, 2018 2:35 PM EST
    • I don't know what will fit, but I'd start here ...

      Mack by HLW

    • December 13, 2018 1:56 PM EST
    • Google is having one of those very rare times it refuses to cough up a reference, any reference, to what I'm wanting, but, even though there is that 'no trailing car' thing, there is a prototypical railroad/railway way to justify having the batteries in their own car & the use of 8% grades is the key. Not to be confused with the 'brake vans' used in UK, is a thing termed a 'brake trailer' which was a usually short, weighted, car where the extra wheels and braking effort could assist the locomotive. 

      Since the little 4 wheel loco is dealing with such steep grades some extra braking power would be perfectly legit as an explanation.

      Now, which of the hundreds of books an magazines at home is there a reference to brake trailers? I know there is one, but haven't looked for brake trailer info since the 1990s.

      If you were modeling electric traction, there were/are literal battery trailers used by some mining and industrial operations.

       

      EDIT: and of course, I keep looking after posting and THEN a reference turns up, after I try braking trailer instead of brake trailer, http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=159202&p=1336549

      Re: B-2 What is it?

      Postby NYC_Dave » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:22 pm

      Thanks for suggesting it was a braking sled. I'd never heard of one. A search of the NYCSHS Headlights turned up a picture of B-3 in the 1994 4th Quarter issue. They were said to be cut down tenders filled with concrete.
      "Basically, it (B-3) is a braking trailer that was used on long switching drills such as the one that serviced GM at Tarrytown, NY where the locomotive alone did not have enough wheels to brake the cuts of cars being switched. It was not well received by the train crews, primarily because their pay did not increase as it would have if a second locomotive had been used. According to Charlie Smith, the Brotherhood won out as the braking trailer was replaced by a second engine within a short period of time."

    • December 13, 2018 1:34 PM EST
    •  I'm a passionate "no trailing car" guy, particularly with diesels. However, if you count the tender on a steam loco, I don't mind that. Batteries would be more accessible with a trailing car though. The real problem is that I do a lot of switching on this railroad, and a trailing car would get in the way. 

    • December 13, 2018 1:09 PM EST
    • Have you considered using a dedicated trailing car that contains all of the electronics and batteries?  The down side is that the engine cannot run without being attached to the car.  One advantage is that you can have more than one engine using the car and swap them when the mood strikes.

    • December 13, 2018 12:54 PM EST
    • Maybe I'm asking too much. Dunno. The new Piko 25 ton track cleaner has traction tires on all it's wheels, but I don't know how good it is yet or if there would be room for my board and a battery.

    • December 13, 2018 12:34 PM EST
    • Joe Loll said:

      Al, thank you for the advice. I am looking to use the Airwire board because I already have one. My goal is to use the board I have instead of buying another one.

      Joe, you bring up some good points. Unfortunately, the grade cannot be changed. I suppose depending on whichever loco I decide upon I could try using traction tires to get a little bit more traction. I use Li-ion batteries, which have a little weight to them.

      Greg, you also bring up some good points. A 44 ton would probably work very well, particularly with the traction tires. However, the track work on the railroad that I hope to run on is finicky, and diesel locos with two trucks as well as steam locos often present problems and derail. I figure a four wheel loco is easy to take on and off the track, will be simpler to wire up for r/c and will look good with my four wheel flatcars that I run. 

      Well we can all dream! 

       

    • December 13, 2018 12:02 PM EST
    • Al, thank you for the advice. I am looking to use the Airwire board because I already have one. My goal is to use the board I have instead of buying another one.

      Joe, you bring up some good points. Unfortunately, the grade cannot be changed. I suppose depending on whichever loco I decide upon I could try using traction tires to get a little bit more traction. I use Li-ion batteries, which have a little weight to them.

      Greg, you also bring up some good points. A 44 ton would probably work very well, particularly with the traction tires. However, the track work on the railroad that I hope to run on is finicky, and diesel locos with two trucks as well as steam locos often present problems and derail. I figure a four wheel loco is easy to take on and off the track, will be simpler to wire up for r/c and will look good with my four wheel flatcars that I run. 

       

    • December 13, 2018 11:59 AM EST
    • I'd look at a USA Trains 44 tonner, more room for batteries and dual motors, also smaller wheels so you have a "lower gear ratio" for pulling... put in enough batteries and then weight it down.

       

      The symmetry of the body will let you get weight over each truck.

       

      You should be able to get wheelsets with traction tires, and as shipped, it had 2 of the 4 axles with traction tires, you can replace the other 2 and have traction tires on all 8 wheels / 4 axles.

       

       

      Greg

       

       

    • December 13, 2018 11:45 AM EST
    • My most used loco is a Bachmann Davenport using a Revolution board and batteries stuck everywhere. I have a battery pack under the hood with a Revolution board and 4 AA batteries in holders under the frame under the coupler draft gear. I use NiMH batteries and the most I could get in this loco is 13.4 volts. What you are asking is a tall order for any 4 wheel switcher. Your 4 inch Airwire board seems like a big problem. An 8% grade is going to take a lot of traction so you are going to need a lot of weight which further reduces the space for receiver and batteries. Good luck.