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    • June 17, 2019 6:01 PM EDT
    • David - Do the 18 or 24 volt smoke units burn at a high temperature than a 5 volt unit?   I don't want the smoke unit to start to melt the small smoke stack on the LGB Chloe loco!   I put the smoke stack with a the five volt smoke unit install in it wiring it to a DC power supply with a 5 volt regulator connected.   It worked fine but the smoke stack cover got a little "sweat" on it, but didn't see to bother it.

       

    • June 17, 2019 5:32 PM EDT
    • I'm thinking as an alternative, just connecting an LGB 18 volt or 24 volt smoke unit directly to track power instead of through the Soundtraxx decoder...

      That would be the better option. Smoke units are power hungry and can draw a half an amp or more.

    • June 17, 2019 10:22 AM EDT
    • Hello Experts - I want to install an LGB 65853 5 volt smoke generator into an LGB Chloe small locomotive onto a 4 amp Soundtraxx Tsunami2 4400 Power/Sound Decoder.  The decoder does not have a specific connection for a smoke unit but does have some additional lighting connections:  FX3 - FX6.  The specifications state that the six function lighting outputs are rated for 100mA each......do not exceed this current rating.  Another spec states:  The Function Common is rated at track voltage minus 1.5v.....this rating will vary between command stations and layouts.  My question to George at the Soundtraxx Technical Dept and his response are below:

      "Hi George - I want to attach an LGB# 65853 smoke generator 5 volts to the decoder's FX3 connection.  It appears that the lighting connection and the FX connections are all 12 volts.  The only guidance I see in the documentation is that to reduce the lighting voltage use a resistor.  What value resistor do I need to use to power the 5 volt smoke unit?

      Tom, you can, but..   you will need to drop the voltage with resistors.  The other factor is each output is good for 300mA.  Just be sure your smoke unit draws less than 300 mA at 5v (with resistors) so you’ll be below the current limits of the FX3.  
      Let me know if you need further guidance. 
      Thank you!"  
       

      What value resistor do I need to reduce the 10.5 volts (12 volts - 1.5 volts) for the smoke unit connected to FX3?  Does anyone know what the mA draw is for LGB 5 volt smoke unit? 

      This seems kind of complicated sorting all this out so the 5 volt smoke unit doesn't harm the decoder.  I'm thinking as an alternative, just connecting an LGB 18 volt or 24 volt smoke unit directly to track power instead of through the Soundtraxx decoder.......many of the older LGB locomotives powered the installed smoke units as always "on" using a 18 - 24 volt smoke unit, later the 5 volt units.

      The short version of the Soundtraxx install instructions are attached...........very detailed install and configuration documents are available on their Website for this decoder.

      Thoughts please......thanks!

       

    • June 14, 2019 4:35 AM EDT
    • Greg and Rooster - I have some other sound system projects taking priority right now, so it will be awhile before I'll be able to test a hall sensor with the Phoenix sound board and Massoth decoder.  But once I do it, I'll certainly post the results, successful or unsuccessful, for everyone.

      Thanks for both your inputs.

      Tom

    • June 14, 2019 4:06 AM EDT
    • Sigh rooster.

      1. if it did not matter to you, then why make comments like you did: "what???  Never mind"

      2. if anyone was to believe your "i'm only following along and don't care anyway" after all your posts, they would have to have a room temperature iq

      3. If there was even a CHANCE you were being serious about understanding, instead of just being a rooster, then I would be happy to explain it to you.

       

      Sorry you feel your duty is to act this way, to the point you cannot even stifle yourself when you "don't care"

       

      Greg

       

    • June 13, 2019 8:44 PM EDT
    • Greg Elmassian said:

      Rooster, re-read the response from Phoenix re: connecting grounds and what Tom asked me if you are confused

      I did Greg ....however it matters not to me as you are ALWAYS correct and I could care less.  I'm only following along listening to the expert advice shared on Large Scale Central no where else.

       

      Hopefully Tom will post his results

    • June 13, 2019 1:58 AM EDT
    • Rooster, re-read the response from Phoenix re: connecting grounds and what Tom asked me if you are confused

    • June 11, 2019 8:03 PM EDT
    • Greg Elmassian said:

      Yes Tom, at the very least, you need to have the same ground reference, thus the suggestion to connect the grounds.

       

       

      Best, Greg

      What ???

      Never mind .....

    • June 10, 2019 10:29 PM EDT
    • Yes Tom, at the very least, you need to have the same ground reference, thus the suggestion to connect the grounds.

       

      The iffy point is if the 5v from the decoder will "reference" to the 5v in the Phoenix.

       

      In the strictest sense, if the grounds are connected together, and "going to ground" is the trigger (as I believe), then most likely either 5v should work, but often "should" translates to "maybe".  ;-)

       

      Let us know how it works out, but I suspect it will work either way. If you get into trouble, I would use a 5v supply to the hall effect referenced to the Phoenix.

       

      Best, Greg

    • June 10, 2019 8:21 PM EDT
    • " Rooster " said:

      All the hall sensors I have ever worked with USE a 5v reference signal with a ground. The 3rd wire will be pulse generating or square wave pattern on a scope. Nothing more than an on/off signal passing a magnet. However I have never worked with them in a model train application only 30+ years in the automotive repair industry which uses them quite frequently. 

      With that said I will let the experts help you out Tom as I don't want to be an attack dog here or post fowl language.

       

      Good luck and please post your results

       

         Rooz

       

       

       

    • June 10, 2019 4:42 PM EDT
    • Greg Elmassian said:

      yep, you will need not only a regulated voltage, but to be sure to use the Phoenix ground and I would regulate the 5 volts from the supply that feeds the Phoenix.

       

      Otherwise the ground reference won't be right for the Phoenix.

      Greg

      ++++++++++++++++

      Greg - Here's the response I received from Jim/Phoenix Sound........does it sync with your comments?

      If the hall sensor is to be powered by  the Massoth power decoder, you may only need to connect the Hall output (chuff) to the Phoenix Chuff trigger input. If the Phoenix sound board is to power the hall sensor then the ground connects to Phoenix ground/trigger ground, the hall output to the phoenix chuff input and the hall +5V to the Phoenix +5V (Volume switch +5V connection is a good place to grab that).

       

       

    • May 22, 2019 11:02 PM EDT
    • yep, you will need not only a regulated voltage, but to be sure to use the Phoenix ground and I would regulate the 5 volts from the supply that feeds the Phoenix.

       

      Otherwise the ground reference won't be right for the Phoenix.

       

      Greg

    • May 22, 2019 10:21 PM EDT
    • Greg Elmassian said:

      It really depends on the hall sensor output (which normally goes to ground), and the phoenix requirements for the chuff trigger.

       

      It might work as is (clock is really the hall effect output) and the phoenix chuff trigger needs to be pulled to ground as I remember.

       

      Might work as is, or you may have to "amplify" the current with a single transistor.

       

      Double check the assumptions in #2 sentence and if right, hook them up. Don't overvoltage the hall sensor most work fine on 5v

       

      Greg

       

      Greg - I sent an email last Monday to the Phoenix Sound folks and awaiting their advice.......if a pulse generator unit has been successfully connected to one of their decoders I'm sure they'll know about it, or can also say whether it will work or not.  It appears your thoughts are to attach the pulse generator wires to the regular two chuff inputs to the Phoenix decoder (ground and chuff) and the third wire to some 5volt (Massoth decoders use 6.5 volts) connection on the decoder.......that's what I also thinking but not sure which connection to obtain it.  So I think I'll wait for the Phoenix folks' response before I try anything.

        

      Tom

       

       

    • May 22, 2019 10:13 PM EDT
    • Todd Brody said:

      I have a set of pick-up trucks that had a Hall pick-up mounted.  The axle has a rubber "tube" in the center that rotates with the wheels.  This counter-rotates a "tube" magnet mounted on an axle just above that spins in front of the sensor.  When I spin the wheels and place a compass next to this tube magnet it goes N/S/N/S/etc.

       

      It would seem to me that any Hall set-up would also require a magnet that spins in proximity to teh sensor, and perhaps, you could just replace the Hall sensor with a reed switch and wire that accordingly.

       

      Todd - I just posted a photo of the Massoth Pulse Generator Unit that I installed in the LGB Uintah..........the round magnet is mounted onto the axle and rotates over the three wire sensor.

      Tom

       

    • May 22, 2019 10:09 PM EDT
    • David Maynard said:

      I would contact Phoenix. It would seam to me that they should know.

       

      David - Yes, I've already sent them a message asking for their advice.  But there may be some folks on this forum that have already dealt with this issue, so thought i'd "pulse" them here too.

      Tom

       

    • May 22, 2019 8:20 PM EDT
    • I have a set of pick-up trucks that had a Hall pick-up mounted.  The axle has a rubber "tube" in the center that rotates with the wheels.  This counter-rotates a "tube" magnet mounted on an axle just above that spins in front of the sensor.  When I spin the wheels and place a compass next to this tube magnet it goes N/S/N/S/etc.

       

      It would seem to me that any Hall set-up would also require a magnet that spins in proximity to teh sensor, and perhaps, you could just replace the Hall sensor with a reed switch and wire that accordingly.

    • May 22, 2019 8:02 PM EDT
    • All the hall sensors I have ever worked with USE a 5v reference signal with a ground. The 3rd wire will be pulse generating or square wave pattern on a scope. Nothing more than an on/off signal passing a magnet. However I have never worked with them in a model train application only 30+ years in the automotive repair industry which uses them quite frequently. 

      With that said I will let the experts help you out Tom as I don't want to be an attack dog here or post fowl language.

       

      Good luck and please post your results

       

         Rooz

    • May 21, 2019 9:42 PM EDT
    • It really depends on the hall sensor output (which normally goes to ground), and the phoenix requirements for the chuff trigger.

       

      It might work as is (clock is really the hall effect output) and the phoenix chuff trigger needs to be pulled to ground as I remember.

       

      Might work as is, or you may have to "amplify" the current with a single transistor.

       

      Double check the assumptions in #2 sentence and if right, hook them up. Don't overvoltage the hall sensor most work fine on 5v

       

      Greg

    • May 21, 2019 8:14 PM EDT
    • I would contact Phoenix. It would seam to me that they should know.

    • May 21, 2019 9:49 PM EDT
    • Yep, the clock 2 thing is the major lesson learned here, agreed.

      Also, many mystery CV's although I asked you if you got the CV sheet from the Massoth dealer, and found many of the settings did not make sense.... values out of range according to the documentation, etc.

       

      Anyway, we all learned something, but my biggest takeaway, is I won't go near a Massoth decoder, unless I get the service tool and rewrite everything, and it seems that many DCC systems have difficulty programming some Massoth units. With a Zimo and an NCE, if I cannot program it, then to me, I really look for an alternative. This experience and other of my Massoth experiences have not been good, and I will not purchase a Massoth system to make things work.

       

      Greg