Even with the white metal issues, these are nice cars. When I saw RLD had a great $65 price on them at ECLSTS I picked up another one. It came out of the box intact, but only took minimal handling to snap off one step.  I'll try and get by with using one taken off car #1, but there is a small issue with that: Color.  I didn't realize that Bachman made the Data Only in two different colors. New one; Oxide Brown on left and older one; Oxide Red on the right...

Now I need to find a "browner" primer to pain the one step.  Supposedly Bachman has the replacement rucks in stock so I am going to ask for two pairs to replace these that the experts say will fail eventually.

A J said:

This is all facinating information. My Sprog 3 18 Volt using JMRI only seems to have direct or page mode. I can change CVs and it seems to stick, but reset does not fully work what ever method I use. It never resets CV 1 to 3.

before I shell out on another board or Zimo decoder I will keep trying to see if I can resolve this. 

Having said that, is it possible to get the thermal cut out for the cleaner motor to work with a Zimo decoder ?

Andrew

Hi Andrew - Try one more time to set the CV1 address you want.  I assume you're using a programming track:  So after you enter the address and press ok to enter it, then raise on side of the loco off the rail, so the wheels disengage, to unpower the decoder........wait three seconds and then place the loco back on the rail to re-power the decoder.  See if that works to set your CVs.  I have to use this approach with the Soundtraxx Tsunami2 decoders with my Massoth DCC system.

Also, if your loco's board or the installed decoder is defective, I'd recommend you install a new replacement board with the built-in decoder which are made by Massoth for these LGB track clearner cars.  You can buy one at OnlyTrains.com for $110 plus shipping.  I bought several for my inventory for repairing customer's locos.......did one last month for someone.  You just remove the old board and install the new one, there's a connector cable that plugs into the front cleaning motor.  This is a clean baseline repair approach instead of trying to replace an existing decoder, if it has one.  The photo shows the track cleaning loco with the new board ready to be installed.

Tom

Looked in the compendium and found there are 5 track cleaner versions so I updated  my previous list to show 5 models.

Difference in 4th and 5th is the color of the loco.

Dan Pierce said:

LGB track cleaner versions:

1st had sockets on the back for track power  2067   3 wire motor block

2nd  did not have the sockets on the back 20670   3 wire motor block

3rd had DCC ready sticker, no socket on the rear   4 wire motor block  you could add the 55020 and later the 55021 for DCC

4th had a decoder built in the control board 21670     Red track cleaner is DCC

 

Dan - You state there were three versions of the "Yellow" LGB 2067/20670 Track Cleaning Loco.  So, using your list, then there were actually four versions of these "Yellow" locos before they produced the "Red" LGB 21670 loco with the onboard MTS/DCC decoder installed.  This fourth version of the "Yellow" LGB 20670 did have the factory-installed onboard MTS/DCC decoder.  A copy of the LGB Owner's Manual for this LGB 20670 loco is attached.  So, it's important for anyone owning one of the LGB track cleaning locos to accurately identify which version they have in order to properly diagnose the operating issues.   As you know, this is particularly important if it's DCC equipped, and then to also determine whether someone has installed a DCC decoder or  whether it's the factory-installed onboard MTS/DCC decoder.  If the owner doesn't have the owner's manual and know the history of the loco, then the surest method is to disassemble the loco to determine how it's configured inside.  Unfortunately, LGB didn't use version numbers with production dates on their locomotives which would also be helpful for resale value. 

Tom

This is all facinating information. My Sprog 3 18 Volt using JMRI only seems to have direct or page mode. I can change CVs and it seems to stick, but reset does not fully work what ever method I use. It never resets CV 1 to 3.

before I shell out on another board or Zimo decoder I will keep trying to see if I can resolve this. 

Having said that, is it possible to get the thermal cut out for the cleaner motor to work with a Zimo decoder ?

Andrew

LGB track cleaner versions:

1st had sockets on the back for track power  2067   3 wire motor block

2nd  did not have the sockets on the back 20670   3 wire motor block

3rd had DCC ready sticker, no socket on the rear   4 wire motor block  you could add the 55020 and later the 55021 for DCC

4th is yellow 20670.8 with the built in DCC decoder

5th had a decoder built in the control board 21670  and is now a red cleaner.

It's not necessarily power to program, it's the programming mode... normally these older decoders need register mode, which is indeed in all NCE systems.

Just something people need to know on older systems, register, paged and direct modes used on the programming track in service mode.

My NCE was great at programming, once I tried other modes and also learned that European decoders often need power interrupted after writing.

The NCE allowed ME to choose which mode is used.... whereas even my extremely expensive Zimo does not let me forcibly control the protocol, it tries direct and then if it fails to read, I believe it drops back to register or paged.

Lots to learn when you work on the old stuff... stuff they did not bother to mention in the manuals.

Greg

Hi - The LGB 21670 has a DCC decoder built into the main circuit board........there is no decoder interface like the second of the three versions of the Yellow LGB 20160.  The first 20160 was strickly DC/Analog; the third version has the dcc functionality built into the main circuit board like the current Red LGB 21670.  If your LGB 21670 main circuit board is fired, you can buy a replacement circuit board #LGB E129813 at OnlyTrains.com for $110 plus shipping.  I also have these circuit boards for the LGB 20670/21670 loco repairs I do for folks.   These circuit boards are produced by Massoth.  Regarding the CV programming issues, your DCC programming tool could be the problem......some non-Massoth/Piko DCC systems do not provide sufficient power to program the Massoth-type decoders.  I installed a Massoth XL power decoder and Phoenix sound decoder into someone's LGB F7AB diesel locomotive last year and had no problem setting the CVs.  But when the person received the locos, his NEC DCC system didn't have enough power to properly program the CVs.  He eventually borrowed a friend's Piko DCC system (made by Massoth) and that solved his programming challenges.

Tom 

Hi, I am back home early so dived right inti this again. Manufacturer ID is 123, version is 25, ID for decoder type is 5. I did write ti Massoth but no response. Stan I think you might be on to something, although my maximum power is meant ti be 18 volts. I most appreciate you asking for me. The cleaning motor will turn if power is supplied to its motor directly.

Andrew

Stan, the CV 7 ID is 123 which is Massoth for the LGB track loco and all non Marklin engines of the past.  Of course the 55020 and 55021 will have the same ID of 123 which were used in the decoder ready versions of the track cleaner.

Andrew

I talked to a local person who has repaired several of these.  If you place 20 + volts on the track and the cleaning motor does not move there is likely a problem with the main board.  He has seen that the ball bearing on the cleaning motor axle can freeze causing the motor to stall.  On one unit it only froze once in awhile.  When it froze a diode on the main board burned out.  The main board has a rectifier whose outputs feed the track cleaning motor.  Check the voltage there.

The decoder is integrated to the board and while you can often replace the diodes the main board costs about $160 or so to get a replacement.  

The decoder ID will likely show it is LGB as they have a manufacture ID and for the most part use that for their products.

To check the lights try increasing the speed one notch.  If the lights are off in each position there is likely something wrong with the decoder.  I would check the Massoth WWW site for more compete list of CVs as perhaps you changed a function mapping. They might also have a suggestion on who to reset the decoder with your programmer.

If the lights come on at one speed step and go off at another speed step you have a mismatch between the decoder speed step and the command station speed step.

Hope that helps.

Stan

Hope that helps.

Stan

It's good for all USAT diesels, although there are slight variations.

again, here is a link: https://elmassian.com/index.php/large-scale-train-main-page/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/usat-motive-power/split-axles

I recommend getting Eric's spacer blocks.

Greg

Nick Hernick said:

So, Ted and all involved here, I am looking to invest in a press, Eric’s die , and tubing to fix my many axles on the many old USA ENGINES I own and run . You mentioned in detail K & S #9828 tubing , I had captured another size somewhere in these threads so is #9828 exactly what I need to press on my axles ?

thanks 

Yes, K&S #9828 tubing is what I used on the USA Trains F3 / GPs and NW2 2 axle locos.  I have yet to do an SD40-2 or SD70 3 axle loco, so I can't say if the K&S #9828 tubing is good for those at this time.

I have Eric's die, and it makes it so easy to get the wheels in gauge whilst assuring the gear is center as needed for the 2 axle locos. It's used with a device to press the wheels on, which could be a dedicated press, drill press or vise. Prior to getting Eric's die, I had improvised a method to press the wheels on so the gear would be centered. 

My thanks to Eric for such a great product.

-Ted

So, Ted and all involved here, I am looking to invest in a press, Eric’s die , and tubing to fix my many axles on the many old USA ENGINES I own and run . You mentioned in detail K & S #9828 tubing , I had captured another size somewhere in these threads so is #9828 exactly what I need to press on my axles ?

thanks 

Ted Doskaris said:

Todd Brody said:

IIRC, I just bought a 3 foot length of 3/8" OD from the big box hardware store and it is like the bunny, it just keeps going and going and going...  

Caution!
When deciding to use what size tubing to make repair collars for the USA Trains split plastic gear axles, keep in mind that tubing is measured by outside diameter, whereas pipe is measured by inside diameter, therefore, it's critical to know the inside diameter of the tubing when using it to make the collars to slip over the USA Trains split plastic gear axles.
Expecting 3/8 diameter tubing to work in this regard, as with any tubing, is consequently dependant on its wall thickness.  
For the K & S #9828, its inside diameter (expressed in English units of inches) is 0.018 inches for wall thickness, thus, x2 = 0.036 inch (doubled to account for the circular surround) and then subtracted from the K&S tube outside diameter of 0.394 inch yields  0.357 inch.  That is the target value applicable for the repair collars to fit over the plastic gear axles for the USA Trains F3, GPs and NW2 - there may be others.
-Ted

The walls on my tubing appear thinner than in the photos.  As I said, I flare the end a bit and these push right on in the vice.  

Todd Brody said:

IIRC, I just bought a 3 foot length of 3/8" OD from the big box hardware store and it is like the bunny, it just keeps going and going and going...  

Caution!
When deciding to use what size tubing to make repair collars for the USA Trains split plastic gear axles, keep in mind that tubing is measured by outside diameter, whereas pipe is measured by inside diameter, therefore, it's critical to know the inside diameter of the tubing when using it to make the collars to slip over the USA Trains split plastic gear axles.
Expecting 3/8 diameter tubing to work in this regard, as with any tubing, is consequently dependant on its wall thickness.  
For the K & S #9828, its inside diameter (expressed in English units of inches) is 0.018 inches for wall thickness, thus, x2 = 0.036 inch (doubled to account for the circular surround) and then subtracted from the K&S tube outside diameter of 0.394 inch yields  0.357 inch.  That is the target value applicable for the repair collars to fit over the plastic gear axles for the USA Trains F3, GPs and NW2 - there may be others.
-Ted

Thanks, Ted.

Thanks, Ted.

IIRC, I just bought a 3 foot length of 3/8" OD from the big box hardware store and it is like the bunny, it just keeps going and going and going...