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    • November 30, 2019 11:32 AM EST
    • David Marconi,FOGCH said:

      With that info I'd enjoy getting over to see  it with ya Ken. good excuse for breakfast, maybe get Rooster to meet with us though you can't get him to leave his coop. Holler if you'd like. Maybe Cliff can drive there too. 

      Sounds like a plan. Maybe sometime after this supposed blizzard we're getting. And make it during the week, so Rooster has to work...............

    • November 30, 2019 10:42 AM EST
    • Well, Cliff, your project has certainly aroused great interest here.  It is always fascinating to read about unusual structures on railroads;  I guess you will have your work cut out building this turbine.  An ideal project for the winter period when many outdoor railroads are mothballed or covered in snow for sure and your progress with its construction will be eagerly watched.

      I must look out for popcorn in the superstore, I guess mine sell it.  

    • November 30, 2019 10:05 AM EST
    • Yeah, and that's after avoiding all the repeat ads...  

       

    • November 30, 2019 10:00 AM EST
    • Cliff Jennings said:

      Nice work, Rooster! Of the 300+ ads and articles I've clipped, I don't think I have that first ad you posted.

       

       

      Only 300+ ??? Come on you slacker !

    • November 30, 2019 9:51 AM EST
    • Cliff Jennings said:

      Nice work, Rooster! I don't think I have that first ad, can you tell me what a paper & date?

      I don't know Cliff I clicked it off and cleared my cache cause I have no time to go down rabbit holes!!

    • November 30, 2019 9:49 AM EST
    • David Marconi,FOGCH said:

      With that info I'd enjoy getting over to see  it with ya Ken. good excuse for breakfast, maybe get Rooster to meet with us though you can't get him to leave his coop. Holler if you'd like. Maybe Cliff can drive there too. 

      I'll swing by and pick you guys up on my way to Cliffs house just so I can choke him for getting me sucked into this !

    • November 30, 2019 9:47 AM EST
    • Cliff Jennings said:

      Forest, those are great questions. I don't know if reflectance can infer anything other than just that; maybe someone here might know? 

       

      All I can suggest is to pin down the material composition. For example, tar paper (with occasionally re-applied tar) vs. painted. I'll ask a V&T historian (Stephen Drew).  

      Thanks. A number of passenger cars of the mid-late 1860s to late 1800s had roofs sheathed with tin, usually smaller sheets with soldered joints.

      Text in Mallory Hope Ferrells's V&T book Bonanza Road comments via quotes from contemporary news items on the several hues used, plus trim colors, and even truck colors, but not roof hues.
      Since it mentions use of tan trucks with one of the red/maroon/wine liveries in 1800s I decided to go with similar on roof after seeing accounts and restorations of other 1860, 1870, maybe also early 1880, cars with tan roofs.

      And we now return to our regularly scheduled windmill thread.

    • November 30, 2019 9:47 AM EST
    • Nice work, Rooster! Of the 300+ ads and articles I've clipped, I don't think I have that first ad you posted. Can you tell me what a paper & date? 

       

      Yes, that third item explains the whole division between Dexter and Turbine versions -- how Southwick's original partners kicked him out in a sneaky way. That's when S filed his second patent. And with some good legal help, he prevailed and the Dexter group faded away. 

       

       

    • November 30, 2019 9:40 AM EST
    •  

       

    • November 30, 2019 9:28 AM EST
    • Forest, those are great questions. I don't know if reflectance can infer anything other than just that; maybe someone here might know? 

       

      All I can suggest is to pin down the material composition. For example, tar paper (with occasionally re-applied tar) vs. painted (e.g., fireproof asbestos roofing paint). I'll ask the V&T group and let you know their responses.  

    • November 30, 2019 9:04 AM EST
    • Cliff Jennings said:

      BTW, the full images can be seen at WNHPC.org, here and here.



       

      Hey Cliff, if I might go off on a V&T tangent momentarily;

      the right side of those images brings up V&T question which I've not yet found the answer to. Knowing that B&W photography records reflectance of surfaces as much as, and sometimes more than, the tones of hues, can it be inferred that the roofs of those 2 passenger cars are a lighter hue than black?


      I have books which document the various reds, greens, yellows, passenger cars wore through the years but they do not address roof hues.

      Note the just barely visible 3 passenger car roofs behind the timber train, to left of passenger cars which are on train, and how dark they appear compared to the 2 passenger cars on the train.

      Is that a difference in reflectance or a difference in hue?

      [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49145982688_89ee5c2121_c.jpg[/img]

       

      And again, do these passenger car roofs appear light because of reflectance or because of hue?

      [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49146679152_07a71e93e5_c.jpg[/img]

       

      So, here's what I did about 7 years ago with my slooooooooooooooowly progressing repaint of Bachmann's V&T Silverado set.


      Yeah, I know, V&T 26 was not of the bright and shiny locomotive era, but that's how Bachmann decorated it, so, after repainting the boiler jacketing from sky blue to a 'more realistic' hue I'm taking that and running with it.

      Roofs are tan - and back to that reflectance thing, they appear a slightly lighter tan in image than they do to the eye.

      Locomotive cab roof is light grey, which I've seen used some.

      [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/1532/24114585944_da7c3847e1_z.jpg[/img]

    • November 30, 2019 9:01 AM EST
    • Here's the Southwick patent I'm basing the design on. His first patent was similar, and from it came the "Dexter" windmill. Long story, but this second patent had a number of improvements, and was called the "Turbine Windmill" (vs. the Dexter -- the two were intentionally differentiated). 

       

    • November 30, 2019 8:49 AM EST
    • I mentioned earlier that I thought this thing was just a water tower, and that's it. Apparently I wasn't the only one, because a drawing of this is was in the Nov 2013 NG&SLG. The drawing, by Gary Caviglia, shows the shutters closed, just like the first photo I posted. It sure looks like an upper tank that way. So Caviglia titled his drawing "Mound House Water Tower," with no mention at all of the turbine windmill inside!

       

       Point being, some of you may have seen this turbine windmill already; but thanks to the incomplete title, weren't informed on what it really was.  

    • November 30, 2019 8:47 AM EST
    • With that info I'd enjoy getting over to see  it with ya Ken. good excuse for breakfast, maybe get Rooster to meet with us though you can't get him to leave his coop. Holler if you'd like. Maybe Cliff can drive there too. 

    • November 30, 2019 8:38 AM EST
    • Thanks for all the great reactions and  kind comments guys! 

       

      David, you got it, the shutters could be closed to protect the thing from too much wind force. I've modeled the thing after the inventor's patent, where he hints that the system could be self regulating if a weight is suspended from the "open" pull-rod, this making the shutters want to be open with no wind. The shape of the shutters (with their leading bent edge) is supposed to make the shutters close with higher wind. However, since I have no real drawings (just the patent illustrations), my shutters won't work as well as the real thing (if they work at all). We'll see.

       

      Thanks Ken, and you bet, if you head that way feel free to post some pics here. They have that enormous 1888 Aermotor too. BTW, the builder of this replica didn't have original plans either, but did a heck of a job designing his own linkages (including motorized open/close). 

       

      I've been wanting to take my wife up there, she wants to see it. Haven't had the right weekend to do it yet though. After that, I've also been wanting to suggest a little get together, it's only a half hour from Hollywood I think, in between York and Timonium... a little over an hour from our place: 

       

      New Park Wind Engines
      290 Woolen Mill Road
      New Park, Pennsylvania 17352

       

       

       

       

    • November 30, 2019 7:22 AM EST
    • If you need any pictures of it, Cliff, let me know. I wouldn't mind an excuse to take a run out there and check it out. 

    • November 30, 2019 6:54 AM EST
    • Dave, I wondered what happened to the radiator shutters. I thought it was a good idea.

       

      Cliff, thanks for enlightening us on another interesting piece of history. I had never heard of those things.

    • November 30, 2019 7:14 AM EST
    • Ross Mansell said:

      What about those airbrushes that use baking soda powder (bi carbonate of soda)..supposed to do the job without damage.???

      I've used one of those, it was called an air eraser, but I used the aluminum oxide grit that came with the kit. It would also use baking soda, but haven't tried. As long as you are planning to repaint afterwards it worked well. It left a nice smooth surface.